[pim] Re: Invitation to the "AI Network Multicast" side meeting at IETF 126
Yisong Liu <[email protected]> Mon, 27 Jul 2026 08:44:05 +0800 (CST)
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.pim,gmane.ietf.rtgwg |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <2b076a6698f0b2f-0001e.Richmail.00007002259940896586@chinamobile.com> |
--===============8733099686281837524== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_357614_473927528.1785113045531" ------=_Part_357614_473927528.1785113045531 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, Thank you very much for your interest in the side meeting. The discussions = were truly insightful. Key takeaways are summarized below:=20 1.Standard multicast protocols (PIM-SM, BIER etc.) forward and replicate pa= ckets but lack in-network reduction capabilities =E2=80=93 they cannot aggr= egate multiple incoming gradient streams from GPUs as required for All-Redu= ce collectives. ACK aggregation is also a transport-layer issue that affect= s scalability. This is a fundamental interactivity gap. 2.The decision on whether to extend existing protocols or create a new one = still requires further evaluation and discussion. A draft of draft-mcbride-= mcast4ai-p2mp-mechanism-evaluation has analyzed this question and was prese= nted at the PIM WG.=20 3.No strict dependency on UEC however, a clear understanding of layer inter= actions is needed. Wim Hendrixx will invite a UEC representative to the nex= t meeting for cross-coordination. 4.Failure scenarios are being addressed by the FANN set of solutions within= the AI context. 5. Whether to form a BoF or a new WG will be decided until after further di= scussion. The problem is clearly defined, but further discussion is require= d. Participants are encouraged to continue conversations on the mcast4ai ma= iling list, with optional CC to other WGs (e.g., PIM) to broaden input. =20 Whether you attended the side meeting or not, you can find the presentation= materials shared on GitHub for your reference: https://github.com/MCAST4AI= /IETF-MCAST4AI/tree/main/IETF126. Please find the meeting recording at the link:=20 https://ietf.webex.com/recordingservice/sites/ietf/recording/e4c830e4caa74b= edb95beb93df1aa3d2/playback Due to a slight delay in starting the recording, the opening overview was n= ot captured. We apologize for any inconvenience. =20 If you have any questions, please feel free to raise them on the mcast4ai m= ailing list.=20 =20 Thank you again for your participation and support. Best Regards Yisong ----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E6=96=87---- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AYisong Liu <[email protected]> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9Amcast4ai <[email protected]>,rtgwg <r= [email protected]>,pim <[email protected]>,bier <[email protected]>,mboned <mboned@ie= tf.org> =E6=8A=84=E3=80=80=E9=80=81: MikeMcBride <[email protected]>,YisongLiu = <[email protected]> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A2026-07-17 15:35:31 =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9AInvitation to the "AI Network Multicast" side me= eting at IETF 126 Dear All, We will organize a side meeting of AI Network Multicast on Tuesday, July 21= , 9:15-10:45 (Europe/Vienna), in room Grand Klimt Hall 3. If you are intere= sted in AIDC or network layer multicast, please come to the side meeting to= discuss. If you are remote participant, please access the meeting via the = link: https://ietf.webex.com/meet/sidemeetings2 =20 This side meeting builds on previous side meeting discussions and will dive= deeper into AI-specific multicast use cases and requirements, including Mo= E token dispatch, while conducting preliminary technical analyses of potent= ial solutions such as BIER enhancements and new protocol designs, with emph= asis on reliability, scalability, and quantitative performance evaluation t= o guide future standardization. =20 Please check the initial agenda of the side meeting in the following:=20 0. Welcome & Review Chairs=20 1. Multicast Problem Statement for AIDC ( Junye Zhang, Remote, China Mobil= e) =20 Abstract: Multicast is a promising technique for enhancing the efficiency o= f point-to-multipoint data transmission during LLM training and inference i= n AI Data Centers (AIDCs). However, AIDCs demand bidirectional interaction,= lossless reliability, microsecond scale dynamics, sparse groups, and simpl= e control/data planes. This talk will give a brief problem statement of mul= ticast in AIDCs. 2.Can LLMs Reason Structurally? Benchmarking via the lens of Data Structure= s, with possible benefit from Multicast ( Yingxi Li, Remote, Stanford Unive= rsity)=20 Abstract: As large language models (LLMs) are increasingly deployed on comp= lex tasks that demand multi-step decision-making, evaluating their algorith= mic reasoning capabilities becomes critical. This talk introduces DSR-Bench= , a diagnostic benchmark grounded in data structures, designed to assess st= ructural reasoning=E2=80=94the ability to perceive and manipulate relationa= l patterns such as order, hierarchy, and connectivity, including the benchm= ark design, the evaluation methodology, and key empirical findings. The tal= k concludes with a brief discussion of potential implications for AI data-c= enter networks, raising the question of whether efficient multicast communi= cation could benefit long-context inference, inference-time search, and dis= tributed model execution. 3.In-Network Computing on Switches (IFEC): Remodeling Multicast and Acceler= ating Communication for AI Clusters (Changwang Lin, On-site, Alibaba & H3C= ) Abstract: Describe an innovative collaborative computing paradigm named IFE= C (In Fabric Extended-Computation). Its core objective is to address the wo= rsening cross-xPU communication bottlenecks in large-scale AI training and = inference, driven by rising model parallelism and the widespread adoption o= f architectures such as MoE. 4. Multicast in Scale-Up (Haibo Wang, On-site, Huawei) Abstract: With the rapid development of AI services, optimizing AI cluster = performance has become increasingly important. Notably, some AI service sce= narios may exhibit multicast-like communication patterns (e.g., MOE dispatc= h).Traditional network multicast relies on single-direction forwarding, whi= ch conflicts with key AI service requirements: interactivity, reliability, = dynamics, and sparsity. These mismatches introduce significant challenges i= n scale-out network. Interestingly, when AI services operate within a scale= -up network, these challenges become more manageable. Consequently, we prop= ose first focusing on leveraging multicast to enhance scale-up AI service p= erformance, before extending the solution to broader distributed deployment= s. 5. Open Discussion =20 Welcome to join us! We hope to see you there! If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us: liuyisong@chinam= obile.com, [email protected] Best Regards Yisong =20 =20 ------=_Part_357614_473927528.1785113045531 Content-Type: text/html;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Dear All,</font></= div><div><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91"><br></font></d= iv><div><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Du= tf-8"><meta name=3D"ProgId" content=3D"Word.Document"><meta name=3D"Generat= or" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14"><meta name=3D"Originator" content=3D"Micr= osoft Word 14"><title></title><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:DocumentProperties= ><o:Revision>1</o:Revision><o:Pages>1</o:Pages><o:Lines>1</o:Lines><o:Parag= raphs>1</o:Paragraphs></o:DocumentProperties></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte = mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![e= ndif]--><!--[if gte mso 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Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Colorful 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Colorful 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Colorful 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Columns 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Columns 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Columns 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Columns 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Columns 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 6" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 7" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid 8" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 6" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 7" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table List 8" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table 3D effects 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table 3D effects 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table 3D effects 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Contemporary" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Elegant" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Professional" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Subtle 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Subtle 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Web 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Web 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Web 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Balloon Text" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Grid" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Table Theme" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Placeholder Text" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"No Spacing" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Shading" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light List" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Grid" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Dark List" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Shading" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful List" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Grid" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Shading Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light List Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Grid Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"List Paragraph" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Quote" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Intense Quote" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Dark List Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful List Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 1" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Shading Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light List Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Grid Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Dark List Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful List Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 2" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Shading Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light List Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Grid Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Dark List Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful List Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 3" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Shading Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light List Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Grid Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Dark List Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful List Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 4" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Shading Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light List Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Light Grid Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Shading 2 Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 1 Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 2 Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Medium Grid 3 Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Dark List Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"99" SemiHidden=3D"false" Na= me=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 5" ></w:LsdException> <w:LsdException 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@font-face{ font-family:"Times New Roman"; } @font-face{ font-family:"=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"; } @font-face{ font-family:"Calibri"; } p.MsoNormal{ mso-style-name:=E6=AD=A3=E6=96=87; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0pt; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:none; text-align:justify; text-justify:inter-ideograph; font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; mso-bidi-font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:10.5000pt; mso-font-kerning:1.0000pt; } span.10{ font-family:Calibri; } span.15{ font-family:Calibri; color:rgb(0,0,255); text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single; } span.msoIns{ mso-style-type:export-only; mso-style-name:""; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single; color:blue; } span.msoDel{ mso-style-type:export-only; mso-style-name:""; text-decoration:line-through; color:red; } @page{mso-page-border-surround-header:no; =09mso-page-border-surround-footer:no;}@page Section0{ } div.Section0{page:Section0;}</style><!--StartFragment--><p class=3D"MsoNorm= al"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">Thank yo= u very much for your interest in the side meeting. The discussions were tru= ly insightful. Key takeaways are summarized below:</font><span style=3D"fon= t-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: medium;"> <= /span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85= =E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">1.Standard multicast protocols (PIM-SM, BIER etc= .) forward and replicate packets but lack in-network reduction capabilities= =E2=80=93 they cannot aggregate multiple incoming gradient streams from GP= Us as required for All-Reduce collectives. ACK aggregation is also a transp= ort-layer issue that affects scalability. This is a fundamental interactivi= ty gap.<o:p></o:p></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE= =E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">2.The decision on whether to extend= existing protocols or create a new one still requires further evaluation a= nd discussion. A draft of draft-mcbride-mcast4ai-p2mp-mechanism-evalua= tion has analyzed this question and was presented at the PIM WG. <o:p>= </o:p></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9= =9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">3.No strict dependency on UEC; however, a clear= understanding of layer interactions is needed. Wim Hendrixx will invite a = UEC representative to the next meeting for cross-coordination.<o:p></o:p></= font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85= =E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">4.Failure scenarios are being addressed by the FANN s= et of solutions within the AI context.<o:p></o:p></font></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">5. W= hether to form a BoF or a new WG will be decided until after further discus= sion. The problem is clearly defined, but further discussion is requir= ed. Participants are encouraged to continue conversations on the mcast4ai m= ailing list, with optional CC to other WGs (e.g., PIM) to broaden input.<o:= p></o:p></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8= =BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"> </font></o:p></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">Whet= her you attended the side meeting or not, you can find the presentation mat= erials shared on GitHub for your reference: <span><a href=3D"https://github= .com/MCAST4AI/IETF-MCAST4AI/tree/main/IETF126."><u><span class=3D"15" style= =3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255); text-decoration: underline;">https://github.com/= MCAST4AI/IETF-MCAST4AI/tree/main/IETF126.</span></u></a></span><o:p></o:p><= /font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85= =E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">Please find the meeting recording at the link: <= /font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85= =E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><span><a href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/recordingserv= ice/sites/ietf/recording/e4c830e4caa74bedb95beb93df1aa3d2/playback">https:/= /ietf.webex.com/recordingservice/sites/ietf/recording/e4c830e4caa74bedb95be= b93df1aa3d2/playback</a></span></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face= =3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">Due to a slight delay = in starting the recording, the opening overview was not captured. We apolog= ize for any inconvenience.<o:p></o:p></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p= ><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"> </fon= t></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B= =85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">If you have any questions, please feel free to rai= se them on the mcast4ai mailing list. <o:p></o:p></font></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><o:p><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"= > </font></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8= =BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">Thank you again for your participation= and support.<o:p></o:p></font></p><!--EndFragment--></div><div><font face= =3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91"><br></font></div><div><font face= =3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Best Regards</font></div><div><fo= nt face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Yisong</font></div><div><f= ont face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91"><br></font></div><!-- blo= ck name=3D"headerinfo" --> <blockquote id=3D"oriMsgHtmlSeperator" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: = 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> ----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E6=96=87----<br> <b>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</b>Yisong Liu <l= [email protected]><br> <b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</b>mcast4ai <mcast4ai= @ietf.org>,rtgwg <[email protected]>,pim <pi= [email protected]>,bier <[email protected]>,mboned <= [email protected]><br> <b>=E6=8A=84=E3=80=80=E9=80=81: </b>MikeMcBride <mmcbride7@gm= ail.com>,YisongLiu <[email protected]><br> <b>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A</b>2026-07-17 15:35:31<br> <b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A</b>Invitation to the "AI = ;Network Multicast" side meeting at IETF 126<= br> <br> <div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-hei= ght: 1.5;word-break: break-all;"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85= =E9=BB=91" style=3D"">Dear All,</font></div><div style=3D"background-color:= rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height: 1.5;word-break: break-all;= "><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91"><br></font></div><div= style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height:= 1.5;word-break: break-all;"><style>* { } p.MsoNormal { =09margin: 0.0pt; =09text-align: justify; =09font-family: Calibri; =09font-size: 10.5pt; } p.pre { =09margin: 0.0pt; =09text-align: left; =09font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =09font-size: 12.0pt; } span.msoIns { =09text-decoration: underline; =09color: blue; } span.msoDel { =09text-decoration: line-through; =09color: red; } div.Section0 { =09page: Section0; } </style><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF= =E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">We will organize a side meeting of AI N= etwork Multicast on <b>Tuesday, July 21, 9:15-10:45</b>= (Europe/Vienna), in <b>room Grand Klimt Hall 3</b>. If you are intere= sted in AIDC or network layer multicast, please come to the side meeting to= discuss. If you are remote participant, please access the meeting via the = link: https://ietf.webex.com/meet/sidemeetings2</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNo= rmal" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size= =3D"3"> </font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5= =BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">This side meeting builds on p= revious side meeting discussions and will dive deeper into AI-specific mult= icast use cases and requirements, including MoE token dispatch, while condu= cting preliminary technical analyses of potential solutions such as BIER en= hancements and new protocol designs, with emphasis on reliability, scalabil= ity, and quantitative performance evaluation to guide future standardizatio= n.</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8= =BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"> </font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal= " style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"= >Please check the initial <font style=3D"">agenda of the side meeting = in the following: </font></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"">= <font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>0. W= elcome & Review Chairs</b> </font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"= style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">= <b>1. Multicast Problem Statement for AIDC ( Junye Zhang, Remote= , China Mobile)</b> </font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""= ><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>Abstract= :</b> Multicast is a promising technique for enhancing the efficiency of po= int-to-multipoint data transmission during LLM training and inference in AI= Data Centers (AIDCs). However, AIDCs demand bidirectional interaction, los= sless reliability, microsecond scale dynamics, sparse groups, and simple co= ntrol/data planes. This talk will give a brief problem statement of multica= st in AIDCs.</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5= =BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b><span style=3D"">2.</span>= Can LLMs Reason Structurally? Benchmarking via the lens of Data Structures,= with possible benefit from Multicast ( Yingxi Li, Remote, Stanford Univers= ity)</b> </font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"= =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>Abstract: </b>As large = language models (LLMs) are increasingly deployed on complex tasks that dema= nd multi-step decision-making, evaluating their algorithmic reasoning capab= ilities becomes critical. This talk introduces DSR-Bench, a diagnostic benc= hmark grounded in data structures, designed to assess structural reasoning= =E2=80=94the ability to perceive and manipulate relational patterns such as= order, hierarchy, and connectivity, including the benchmark design, the ev= aluation methodology, and key empirical findings. The talk concludes with a= brief discussion of potential implications for AI data-center networks, ra= ising the question of whether efficient multicast communication could benef= it long-context inference, inference-time search, and distributed model exe= cution.</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.0pt;text-i= ndent: 0.0pt;"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"= 3"><b><span style=3D"">3.</span>In-Network Computing on Switches (IFEC): Re= modeling Multicast and Accelerating Communication for AI Clusters (Ch= angwang Lin, On-site, Alibaba & H3C)</b></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma= l" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3= "><b>Abstract: </b>Describe an innovative collaborative computing paradigm = named IFEC (In Fabric Extended-Computation). Its core objective is to addre= ss the worsening cross-xPU communication bottlenecks in large-scale AI trai= ning and inference, driven by rising model parallelism and the widespread a= doption of architectures such as MoE.</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" styl= e=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>4.= Multicast in Scale-Up (Haibo Wang, On-site, Huawei)</b></font><= /p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B= =85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>Abstract:</b> With the rapid development of AI = services, optimizing AI cluster performance has become increasingly importa= nt. Notably, some AI service scenarios may exhibit multicast-like communica= tion patterns (e.g., MOE dispatch).Traditional network multicast relies on = single-direction forwarding, which conflicts with key AI service requiremen= ts: interactivity, reliability, dynamics, and sparsity. These mismatches in= troduce significant challenges in scale-out network. Interestingly, when AI= services operate within a scale-up network, these challenges become more m= anageable. Consequently, we propose first focusing on leveraging multicast = to enhance scale-up AI service performance, before extending the solution t= o broader distributed deployments.</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style= =3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"><b>5.&= nbsp;Open Discussion</b></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font = face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3"> </font></p><= p class=3D"pre" style=3D"margin-top: 0.0pt;margin-left: 0.0pt;text-indent: = 0.0pt;padding: 0.0pt;background: rgb(255,255,255);"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE= =E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">Welcome to join us! We hope to see = you there!</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"=E5=BE= =AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" size=3D"3">If you have any questions, pleas= e feel free to contact us: <span><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= m">[email protected]</a></span>, <span><a href=3D"mailto:mmcbride7@= gmail.com">[email protected]</a></span></font></p></div><div style=3D"bac= kground-color: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height: 1.5;word-bre= ak: break-all;"><br></div><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,255);= color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height: 1.5;word-break: break-all;"><font face=3D"= =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91">Best Regards</font></div><div style= =3D"background-color: rgb(255,255,255);color: rgb(0,0,0);line-height: 1.5;w= ord-break: break-all;"><font face=3D"=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91" = style=3D"">Yisong<br></font><br><br><br><br><font face=3D"=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD= =93" style=3D"font-size: 16.0px;"> </font></div> </blockquote> <!-- endblock name=3D"headerinfo" --> <div style=3D"font-size: 16px; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; background-= color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; overflow-= wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all;"><br><br><br><br><br> </div> ------=_Part_357614_473927528.1785113045531-- --===============8733099686281837524== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KcGltIG1haWxp bmcgbGlzdCAtLSBwaW1AaWV0Zi5vcmcKVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUgc2VuZCBhbiBlbWFpbCB0byBw aW0tbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============8733099686281837524==--