Re: Future of the PPP WG
Mark Townsley <[email protected]> Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:51:01 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.pppext |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============8973027691249912721== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-10-150128780 --Apple-Mail-10-150128780 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii OK, I stand corrected. I was thinking of the charter that had existed = before and during my tenure as AD: = http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pppext/charters?item=3Dcharter-pppext-2006-07-03.= txt It seems a few sentences were added in 2009, in particular the = unfortunate text that says:=20 "The group is not expected to create new specifications, and if a need = for such work comes up, a recharter is required." This looks like Jari's handiwork, he just loves to recharter WGs ;-) With this new sentence, yes, it looks like pppext is unnecessarily = hamstrung from advancing enhancements that the group does *not* think = are of questionable value.=20 - Mark On Sep 9, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote: > Hi Mark, >=20 > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Mark Townsley <[email protected]> = wrote: >>=20 >> On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Glen Zorn wrote: >=20 > Actually I wrote the following: >=20 >>> One question is, should PPPEXT have a 1 hour meeting at the November >>> IETF meeting? I think that would be the best way to come to = consensus >>> on this but obviously only if enough people would plan to actually >>> attend. So, I'd be interested in who would attend and any opinions >>> for or against such a meeting. >>=20 >> PPPEXT hasn't met in, what, 10 years or more? The charter hasn't = changed >> significantly since Thomas Narten was AD. I seriously doubt a = physical >> meeting is worth having in what are already jam-packed IETF meetings. = If >> you have any PPP experts there, it will be because folks like Glen, = James, >> and others happen to have moved on to other areas that require IETF >> presence. >=20 > I don't have any particular problem operating PPPEXT without meetings, > if that is what people want, either under the current charter or an > expanded charter to do some security stuff. >=20 >> If you are dead set on a recharter (personally, I like the pppext = charter, >> and pointed to it as a good example of a "dormant but useful" WG = several >> times as AD) then round up the PPP guys that are still around and = chat with >> them in the hallway and take it to the list. It could even be a fun = bar >> outing, looking back on the good old 90s... perhaps we could get = Craig and >> Karl Fox to dig up some memorabilia. >=20 > Well, it caused some difficulties with the TRILL over PPP draft that > the current charter prohibits the WG producing any documents, which > seems to also rule out the WG updating any security documents. > Furthermore, I believe that our AD is inclined to shut down the WG if > the current situation doesn't change. >=20 >> But, please don't make Marcia deal with what to her will look like a = brand >> new WG to deal with scheduling. >=20 > Everything has benefits and costs. That it takes some effort to > schedule a meeting for a group that has not met in a long time does > not seem like the exclusively controlling factor to me. >=20 > Thanks, > Donald > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA > [email protected] >=20 >> - Mark >>=20 >> I would attend if I had no irreconcilable conflicts. >> _______________________________________________ >> Pppext mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext >>=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail-10-150128780 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; = "><div><br></div><div>OK, I stand corrected. I was thinking of the = charter that had existed before and during my tenure as = AD:</div><div><br></div><div><a = href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pppext/charters?item=3Dcharter-pppext-200= 6-07-03.txt">http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pppext/charters?item=3Dcharter-pppex= t-2006-07-03.txt</a></div><div><br></div><div>It seems a few sentences = were added in 2009, in particular the unfortunate text that = says: </div><div><br></div><div>"The group is not expected to = create new specifications, and if a need for such work comes up, a = recharter is required."</div><div><br></div><div>This looks like = Jari's handiwork, he just loves to recharter WGs = ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>With this new sentence, yes, it looks like = pppext is unnecessarily hamstrung from advancing enhancements that the = group does *not* think are of questionable = value. </div><div><br></div><div>- = Mark</div><div><br></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"monospace"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"white-space: = pre; = "><br></span></font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On = Sep 9, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Hi = Mark,<br><br>On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Mark Townsley <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Glen Zorn = wrote:<br></blockquote><br>Actually I wrote the = following:<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">One = question is, should PPPEXT have a 1 hour meeting at the = November<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">IETF meeting? I think that would = be the best way to come to = consensus<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">on this but obviously only if = enough people would plan to = actually<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">attend. So, I'd be interested in = who would attend and any = opinions<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">for or against such a = meeting.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">PPPEXT hasn't = met in, what, 10 years or more? The charter hasn't = changed<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">significantly since = Thomas Narten was AD. I seriously doubt a = physical<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">meeting is worth = having in what are already jam-packed IETF meetings. = If<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">you have any PPP = experts there, it will be because folks like Glen, = James,<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">and others happen to = have moved on to other areas that require = IETF<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">presence.<br></blockquote><br>I don't have any particular = problem operating PPPEXT without meetings,<br>if that is what people = want, either under the current charter or an<br>expanded charter to do = some security stuff.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">If you are dead = set on a recharter (personally, I like the pppext = charter,<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">and pointed to it as = a good example of a "dormant but useful" WG = several<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">times as AD) then = round up the PPP guys that are still around and chat = with<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">them in the hallway and = take it to the list. It could even be a fun = bar<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">outing, looking back on = the good old 90s... perhaps we could get Craig = and<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Karl Fox to dig up some = memorabilia.<br></blockquote><br>Well, it caused some difficulties with = the TRILL over PPP draft that<br>the current charter prohibits the WG = producing any documents, which<br>seems to also rule out the WG updating = any security documents.<br>Furthermore, I believe that our AD is = inclined to shut down the WG if<br>the current situation doesn't = change.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">But, please don't make Marcia = deal with what to her will look like a brand<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">new WG to deal with = scheduling.<br></blockquote><br>Everything has benefits and costs. That = it takes some effort to<br>schedule a meeting for a group that has not = met in a long time does<br>not seem like the exclusively controlling = factor to = me.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Donald<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br> Donald E. = Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell)<br> 155 Beaver = Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA<br> <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite">- Mark<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">I would attend = if I had no irreconcilable conflicts.<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu= ote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Pppext mailing = list<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br></blockquote><block= quote type=3D"cite"><a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext">https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/pppext</a><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-10-150128780-- --===============8973027691249912721== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Pppext mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext --===============8973027691249912721==--