Re: [Detnet] [mpls] FW: New Version Notification for draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt

Greg Mirsky <[email protected]> Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:40:24 +0200
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.pwe3,gmane.ietf.mpls
Message-ID <CA+RyBmVhgGbzVsaWEz0AsEfSsu8Qq8AzfB6egvp4vjGpygKnDQ@mail.gmail.com>
John,
I didn't know that PSD MNA is not applicable to PW or DetNet MPLS. Can you
point me to where that is states in the MNA framework draft or elsewhere? I
was under impression that MNA is equally applicable to any type of MPLS. Am
I missing something?

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 6:32 PM John E Drake <[email protected]> wrote:

> Greg,
>
> Why would we want to have anything to do with pseudo-wires, which have
> nothing to do with MNA?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 20, 2023, at 11:27 AM, Greg Mirsky <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
>
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>
> Hi Tony,
> I wonder if a new value for the first nibble is necessary. Could PSD use
> an existing one that has a version numbering in the following it bits? For
> example,  PW ACH, i.e., 0b001? That is how the DetNet OAM in MPLS decided
> to define its header, different from the PW ACH format. Would using a new
> Version in the PW ACH help PSD MNA?
> But I am not clear how PSD MNA works for  PW with PW CW or DetNet MPLS
> with d-CW. Would the authors of the draft be working on that?
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 5:10 PM Tony Li <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Loa,
>>
>> I don’t understand your question.
>>
>> Please recall that we have to deal with legacy implementations. We need
>> PSD quickly and efficiently found by implementations that support MNA. The
>> pointer in ISD helps with that.
>>
>> We also need to ensure that MNA PSD is not confused with other PSD
>> usages. The new first nibble is a requirement for that.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 20, 2023, at 2:20 AM, Loa Andersson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Authors, Working Group,
>> >
>> > It is is a mystery  to me why adding a new first nibble that is not
>> precise, rather than to trust the the P-bit in the LSE following the MNA
>> label:
>> >
>> >    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
>> >   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> >   |   Opcode    |        Data             |P|IHS|S| Res |U|  NASL |
>> >   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> >
>> > which give you a precise pointer to the PSD, is not considered
>> "cleaner" than trusting the first nibble.
>> >
>> > /Loa
>> >
>> > On 2023-03-28 22:58, Rakesh Gandhi wrote:
>> >> Hi Loa,
>> >> We, authors, feel that having a new first Nibble IANA assigned would
>> be a cleaner solution, but we also like to hear from the other side of the
>> house.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Rakesh
>> >> On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 3:56 AM Loa Andersson <[email protected] <mailto:
>> [email protected]>> wrote:
>> >>    Rakesh,
>> >>    Thanks for response, I'd like to point out
>> >>    - the first nibble is never on its own a sufficient indication for
>> what
>> >>        the payload a a packet is, it might be an Ethernet PW without
>> >>    control
>> >>        word, where the first nibble accidentally is a value that we
>> >>    assigned
>> >>        for some payload.
>> >>    - something more is needed to with sufficient accuracy understand
>> what
>> >>        the payload is, for PSD this is the P-bit in the OpCode LSE.
>> >>    - actually the the P-bit in the OpCode LSE is sufficient in itself,
>> we
>> >>        don't need the first nibble, unless we for some reason want both
>> >>        brace and waist belt, but I can't see why
>> >>    - first nibbles is a scarce resource that should only be allocated
>> if we
>> >>        really need it.
>> >>    Maybe someone from the the pseudo wire side of the house can confirm
>> >>    this.
>> >>    /Loa
>> >>    On 2023-03-15 13:16, Rakesh Gandhi wrote:
>> >>     > Hi Loa,
>> >>     >
>> >>     > Authors discussed the first nibble after BOS.
>> >>     > Re-using any existing Nibble (e.g. 0000b for CW or 0001b for
>> >>    G-ACH) can
>> >>     > lead to backwards compatibility issues on the legacy devices.
>> >>     > Note that legacy devices may not support MNA sub-stack.
>> >>     > It would be good to assign a new nibble (e.g., 0x2 = 0010b,
>> >>    currently
>> >>     > not assigned) to avoid such issues.
>> >>     > We can agree on this (i.e. assigning a new nibble for PSD), we
>> can
>> >>     > update the draft accordingly.
>> >>     >
>> >>     > thanks,
>> >>     > Rakesh
>> >>     >
>> >>     >
>> >>     >
>> >>     >
>> >>     > On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 9:40 AM Loa Andersson
>> >>    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>     > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
>> wrote:
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     All,
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     I have a question that is not new, and I’m still uncertain
>> >>    what the
>> >>     >     correct answer is.
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     I’m not certain that we should consider “the first nibble” as
>> >>    part
>> >>     >     of the MNA PSD. Admittedly it is part of PSD, but not part
>> of the
>> >>     >     MNA PSD.
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     We could say that MNA PSD start after the first nibble. If
>> the
>> >>     >     PSD-bit is set in the MNA-label LSE, we can safely ignore the
>> >>    first
>> >>     >     nibble, if it is not set we need to look at the first
>> nibble, and
>> >>     >     the data following the first nibble is not MNA ancillary
>> data.
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     I see no meed to define a PSD first nibble. It would also
>> avoid a
>> >>     >     potential ambiguity in using the Generic Associated Channel
>> >>    nibble.
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     For MNA the first should be set to 0000b when sent, and
>> >>    ignored when
>> >>     >     received.
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     /Loa
>> >>     >
>> >>     >     Sent from my iPhone
>> >>     >
>> >>     >>     On 10 Mar 2023, at 13:59, Jaganbabu Rajamanickam (jrajaman)
>> >>     >>     <[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>     >>     <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     Hello Everyone,____
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     __ __
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>        We like to introduce our new draft on Post-Stack MNA
>> >>    solution.____
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>        Welcome your review comments and suggestions.____
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     __ __
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     Thanx,____
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     Jags____
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     __ __
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     *From: *[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> >>     >>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>>
>> >>     >>     *Date: *Friday, March 10, 2023 at 7:52 AM
>> >>     >>     *To: *Jaganbabu Rajamanickam (jrajaman) <[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>     >>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>,
>> >>    Jie Dong <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>     >>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>,
>> >>    Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)
>> >>     >>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>, Royi Zigler
>> >>     >>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>>>, Tony
>> >>     >>     Li <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
>> >>     >>     *Subject: *New Version Notification for
>> >>     >>     draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt____
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     A new version of I-D, draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt
>> >>     >>     has been successfully submitted by Jaganbabu Rajamanickam
>> and
>> >>     >>     posted to the
>> >>     >>     IETF repository.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     Name:           draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr
>> >>     >>     Revision:       00
>> >>     >>     Title:          Post-Stack MPLS Network Action (MNA)
>> Solution
>> >>     >>     Document date:  2023-03-10
>> >>     >>     Group:          Individual Submission
>> >>     >>     Pages:          17
>> >>     >>     URL:
>> >>     >>
>> >>    https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ4AfI4o2$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ4AfI4o2$>
>> >
>> >>     >>         <
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ4AfI4o2$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ4AfI4o2$>
>> >>
>> >>     >>     Status:
>> >>     >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ2sHFVBC$>
>> >>    <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ2sHFVBC$>
>> >
>> >>     >>         <
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ2sHFVBC$>
>> >>    <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ2sHFVBC$>
>> >>
>> >>     >>     Html:
>> >>     >>
>> >>    https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJyGuCAzZ$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJyGuCAzZ$>
>> >
>> >>     >>         <
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJyGuCAzZ$>
>> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-00.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJyGuCAzZ$>
>> >>
>> >>     >>     Htmlized:
>> >>     >>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ1iGDL2S$>
>> >>    <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ1iGDL2S$>
>> >
>> >>     >>         <
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ1iGDL2S$>
>> >>    <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ1iGDL2S$>
>> >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     Abstract:
>> >>     >>        This document defines the Post-Stack MPLS Network Action
>> >>    (MNA)
>> >>     >>        solution for carrying Network Actions and Ancillary Data
>> >>    after the
>> >>     >>        MPLS label stack based on In-Stack MNA solution defined
>> >>    in draft-
>> >>     >>        ietf-mpls-mna-hdr.  MPLS Network Actions can be used to
>> >>    influence
>> >>     >>        packet forwarding decisions, carry additional OAM
>> information
>> >>     >>     in the
>> >>     >>        MPLS packet or perform user-defined operations.  This
>> >>    document
>> >>     >>        addresses the MNA requirements specified in
>> >>    draft-ietf-mpls-mna-
>> >>     >>        requirements.  This document follows the MNA framework
>> >>    specified in
>> >>     >>        draft-ietf-mpls-mna-fwk.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     The IETF Secretariat
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     ____
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>     _______________________________________________
>> >>     >>     mpls mailing list
>> >>     >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> >>     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >
>> >>     >>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >>
>> >>     >     _______________________________________________
>> >>     >     mpls mailing list
>> >>     > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >
>> >>     >     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6vq-fR5$>
>> >>
>> >>     >
>> >>     >
>> >>     > _______________________________________________
>> >>     > Pals mailing list
>> >>     > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6r2gKLV$>
>> >>    <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GUv0fvZp1smanNLND8vxUe_yRwAsN-tAd2a1TfrpawcVDd41GJGWkyT_Ge8jrz4ky6r5Hl_Tr4gwJ6r2gKLV$>
>> >
>> >>    --     Loa Andersson                        email: [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>    Senior MPLS Expert [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>    Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>> >
>> > --
>> > Loa Andersson                        email: [email protected]
>> > Senior MPLS Expert                          [email protected]
>> > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
>

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