[Pals] Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-pals-ple-08

Joel Halpern <[email protected]> Fri, 18 Oct 2024 14:33:05 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.pwe3,gmane.ietf.gen-art
Message-ID <[email protected]>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============7114192961502217640==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------WjNcSr0pA2u2jHlTXZS8Tinj"
Content-Language: en-US

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------WjNcSr0pA2u2jHlTXZS8Tinj
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Thanks.  With regard to the non-byte-aligned payload, I am still 
slightly confused.  I can well believe this is clear to those working in 
the area.  But... If the payload is not byte aligned, and bytes are 
sent, how does the receiver know how many bits in the last byte to ignore?

Thanks,

Joel

On 10/18/2024 1:44 PM, Christian Schmutzer (cschmutz) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thank you for your review! Let me try to comment/answer here
>
> _1) RSV/FRG:_
>
> Good catch. We indeed forgot to mention explicitly that payload 
> fragmentation is not used by PLE. I changed the text for FRG to
>
>     These bits MUST be set to zero by the sender and ignored by the 
> receiver as PLE does not use payload fragmentation
>
> And similar to RFC4553 
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4553#section-4.2) I also 
> added the following sentence to the PW demultiplexing section
>
>     The total size of a PLE packet for a specific PW MUST NOT exceed 
> the path MTU between the pair of PEs terminating this PW.
>
>
> _2) byte aligned payload_
>
> For Ethernet and Fibre Channel services, PLE is carrying 66B/64B 
> encoded data for example. So the payload carried by PLE is not always 
> in bytes. The basic payload of PLE is designed to be completely 
> structure agnostic without any need to align the PLE packet generation 
> with the incoming payload data.
>
> For OTN services 
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pals-ple-08#section-4.5) 
> the CE-bound IWF function must extract the extended ODUk frames from 
> the received PLE payloads. Based on our discussions with leading OTN 
> technology vendors, this "search function" is easier to implement 
> under the assumption that the PLE payload is byte aligned hence we 
> defined this dedicated PLE payload type which is byte aligned for OTN 
> services.
>
>
> I hope this addresses your comments. The changes with respect to 1) 
> are included in the -09 version I just uploaded to data tracker
>
> Regards
> Christian
>
>> On 11.10.2024, at 16:34, Joel Halpern via Datatracker 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern
>> Review result: Ready with Nits
>>
>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
>> like any other last call comments.
>>
>> For more information, please see the FAQ at
>>
>> <https://wiki.ietf.org/en/group/gen/GenArtFAQ>.
>>
>> Document: draft-ietf-pals-ple-08
>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern
>> Review Date: 2024-10-11
>> IETF LC End Date: 2024-10-23
>> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
>>
>> Summary: This draft is ready for publication as a Proposed Standard
>>
>> Major issues: N/A
>>
>> Minor issues: N/A
>>
>> Nits/editorial comments:
>>    Section 5.2.1 defining the PLEA Control Word describes two pairs 
>> of bits,
>>    one pair called RSSV and described in the usual way for describing 
>> reserved
>>    bits.  A second pair is called FRG and is described more teresely but
>>    appears to be simply more reserved bits.   It is unclear why these two
>>    fields are separated, and why the wording is slightly different 
>> between
>>    them.
>>
>>    Section 6 desccribes the basic payload and the byte aligned 
>> payload.  The
>>    description makes it look like there are two different forms. 
>>  Thinking
>>    about it, the payload is always in bytes, so the sender will fill 
>> bits from
>>    the source until it has filled the fixed number of bytes.  SO what 
>> is the
>>    difference between 6.1 and 6.2?
>>
>>
>
--------------WjNcSr0pA2u2jHlTXZS8Tinj
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Thanks.  With regard to the non-byte-aligned payload, I am still
      slightly confused.  I can well believe this is clear to those
      working in the area.  But... If the payload is not byte aligned,
      and bytes are sent, how does the receiver know how many bits in
      the last byte to ignore?</p>
    <p>Thanks,</p>
    <p>Joel<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/18/2024 1:44 PM, Christian
      Schmutzer (cschmutz) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email protected]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Hi Joel,
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Thank you for your review! Let me try to comment/answer here</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><u>1) RSV/FRG:</u></div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Good catch. We indeed forgot to mention explicitly that
        payload fragmentation is not used by PLE. I changed the text for
        FRG to </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>    These bits MUST be set to zero by the sender and ignored
        by the receiver as PLE does not use payload fragmentation</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>And similar to RFC4553 (<a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4553#section-4.2"
          moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4553#section-4.2</a>)
        I also added the following sentence to the PW demultiplexing
        section</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>    The total size of a PLE packet for a specific PW MUST NOT
        exceed the path MTU between the pair of PEs terminating this PW.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><u>2) byte aligned payload</u></div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div>For Ethernet and Fibre Channel services, PLE is carrying
          66B/64B encoded data for example. So the payload carried by
          PLE is not always in bytes. The basic payload of PLE is
          designed to be completely structure agnostic without any need
          to align the PLE packet generation with the incoming payload
          data.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>For OTN services
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pals-ple-08#section-4.5">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pals-ple-08#section-4.5</a>)
          the CE-bound IWF function must extract the extended ODUk
          frames from the received PLE payloads. Based on our
          discussions with leading OTN technology vendors, this "search
          function" is easier to implement under the assumption that the
          PLE payload is byte aligned hence we defined this dedicated
          PLE payload type which is byte aligned for OTN services.</div>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I hope this addresses your comments. The changes with respect
        to 1) are included in the -09 version I just uploaded to data
        tracker</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Regards</div>
      <div>Christian <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
        <div><br>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div>On 11.10.2024, at 16:34, Joel Halpern via Datatracker
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]">&lt;[email protected]&gt;</a> wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div>
              <div>Reviewer: Joel Halpern<br>
                Review result: Ready with Nits<br>
                <br>
                I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The
                General Area<br>
                Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being
                processed<br>
                by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these
                comments just<br>
                like any other last call comments.<br>
                <br>
                For more information, please see the FAQ at<br>
                <br>
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://wiki.ietf.org/en/group/gen/GenArtFAQ">&lt;https://wiki.ietf.org/en/group/gen/GenArtFAQ&gt;</a>.<br>
                <br>
                Document: draft-ietf-pals-ple-08<br>
                Reviewer: Joel Halpern<br>
                Review Date: 2024-10-11<br>
                IETF LC End Date: 2024-10-23<br>
                IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat<br>
                <br>
                Summary: This draft is ready for publication as a
                Proposed Standard<br>
                <br>
                Major issues: N/A<br>
                <br>
                Minor issues: N/A<br>
                <br>
                Nits/editorial comments:<br>
                   Section 5.2.1 defining the PLEA Control Word
                describes two pairs of bits,<br>
                   one pair called RSSV and described in the usual way
                for describing reserved<br>
                   bits.  A second pair is called FRG and is described
                more teresely but<br>
                   appears to be simply more reserved bits.   It is
                unclear why these two<br>
                   fields are separated, and why the wording is slightly
                different between<br>
                   them.<br>
                <br>
                   Section 6 desccribes the basic payload and the byte
                aligned payload.  The<br>
                   description makes it look like there are two
                different forms.  Thinking<br>
                   about it, the payload is always in bytes, so the
                sender will fill bits from<br>
                   the source until it has filled the fixed number of
                bytes.  SO what is the<br>
                   difference between 6.1 and 6.2?<br>
                <br>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------WjNcSr0pA2u2jHlTXZS8Tinj--


--===============7114192961502217640==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline

X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KUGFscyBtYWls
aW5nIGxpc3QgLS0gcGFsc0BpZXRmLm9yZwpUbyB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSBzZW5kIGFuIGVtYWlsIHRv
IHBhbHMtbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK

--===============7114192961502217640==--