Re: Fwd: [MMUSIC] SDP Directorate: Review of draft-ietf-rmt-flute-sdp-03

Brian Adamson <[email protected]> Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:49:43 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.rmt
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Thanks Martin,

We will rally the troops to address these.

beset regards,


Brian Adamson
[email protected]




On Jan 22, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Martin Stiemerling wrote:

> FYI, the first email about the SDP review of =
draft-ietf-rmt-flute-sdp-03. I will also forward the 2nd email, just in =
a second.
>=20
> There a number of points that require attention. See below.
>=20
> Martin
>=20
> --=20
> IETF Transport Area Director
>=20
> [email protected]
>=20
> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited
> Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL
> Registered in England 283
>=20
>=20
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	[MMUSIC] SDP Directorate: Review of =
draft-ietf-rmt-flute-sdp-03
> Date: 	Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:30:04 +0000
> From: 	Christer Holmberg <[email protected]>
> To: 	[email protected] <[email protected]>
> CC: 	[email protected]
> <[email protected]>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I am the assigned SDP directorate reviewer for
>=20
> draft-ietf-rmt-flute-sdp-03
>=20
> For background on the SDP directorate, please see the FAQ at
>=20
> http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/sdp.html
>=20
> Please wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD before
> posting a new version of the draft.
>=20
> SUMMARY:
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> I have technical concerns with a number of the technical content of =
this
> document, and at least the =93Composite Session=94 concept, as =
currently
>=20
> defined in the document, would need to be discussed in MMUSIC. I think
> they need to be resolved/clarified before this document can be =
published.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> TECHNICAL
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> General:
>=20
> ------------
>=20
> T-GEN-1:              The draft seems to define a new generic SDP
> mechanism, =93Composite Session=94, for grouping media streams into
> protocol-specific sessions. I am not really sure what that means, but =
it
> seems to go outside the scope of FLUTE. I also think it overlaps with
> the SDP BUNDLE work, and such work shall be done in MMUSIC.
>=20
>                 =93The Composite Session mechanism enables the =
grouping
> of media lines
>=20
>                 in to distinct sessions.  The complete Composite
> Session semantics
>=20
>                 are protocol-specific - as determined by the protocol
> id of the
>=20
>                 grouped media lines.=94
>=20
> T-GEN-2:              Maybe I=92ve missed it, but it is a little =
unclear
> to me why the grouping framework is needed in the first place. If that
> is described somewhere, please tell me :)
>=20
> In section 3.2.1, the text says:
>=20
>                 =93The Composite Session provides an unambiguous way =
to
> define multiple
>=20
>                 FLUTE sessions as distinct from multiple the
> media-sessions semantics
>=20
>                 of RTP.=94
>=20
> But, what is the technical need for this?
>=20
> T-GEN-3:              The draft uses the same source address for every
> m- line associated with a group, but it uses different addresses in =
each
> m- line. Aren=92t the media streams symmetric?
>=20
> T-GEN-4:              There is chapter describing the SDP Offer/Answer
> aspects. How is the answer generated? What if the answerer does not
> support (or, supports, but don=92t want to use) the mechanism?
>=20
> If the mechanism is not to be used with SDP Offer/Answer, but e.g. for
> some kind of declaration, I think that needs to be described.
>=20
> Section 1:
>=20
> -------------
>=20
> T-1-1:                    The text says:
>=20
>                 =93Note, this document may also be used to describe
> sessions of the
>=20
>                 experimental FLUTE specification [RFC3926].=94
>=20
> I think you need to indicate whether or not there will be any changes =
in
> the usage of SDP in that case.
>=20
> Section 3.2:
>=20
> ---------------
>=20
> T-3-2:                    I would like to have some input from the
> MMUSIC community whether =93FLUTE/UDP/ESP=94 is appropriate to =
describe a
> IPSec encrypted FLUTE channel, or whether something like =93SFLUTE/UDP=94=

> should be used instead.
>=20
> Section 3.11:
>=20
> -----------------
>=20
> T-3_11-1:             As the syntax mandates at least one fmt value, I
> suggest that the document specifies which value SHALL be used.
>=20
> EDITORIAL
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> General:
>=20
> -----------
>=20
> E-GEN-1:              The Abstract and Introduction needs to =
explicitly
> state that the specification defines a new SDP grouping framework =
value.
> The Abstract also needs to mention the new SDP protocol values.
>=20
> Section 1:
>=20
> -------------
>=20
> E-1-1:                    s/defines two new protocol =
identifiers/defines
> two new SDP protocol values
>=20
> E-1-2:                    I suggest to remove =93The formal ABNF =
syntax
> [RFC5234] is used for the attributes.=94 It only needs to be stated in =
the
> section defining the new SDP attributes.
>=20
> Section 3:
>=20
> -------------
>=20
> E-3-1:                    I think the second last paragraph, comparing
> FLUTE with RTP media streams, sessions etc is confusing. I think it is
> enough to describe that each SDP m- line represents a FLUTE channel.
>=20
> Section 3.1:
>=20
> ---------------
>=20
> E-3_1-1:               I would suggest to have a new parent chapter,
> =93SDP Extensions=94, with sub-chapters defining the new SDP protocol
> values, attributes etc.
>=20
> Section 3.11:
>=20
> -----------------
>=20
> E-3_11-1:             I suggest to remove this section. It=92s not =
needed,
> and I don=92t even agree with the content.
>=20
> Section 4:
>=20
> -------------
>=20
> E-4-1:                    Instead of saying =93a=3DFEC-declaration =
line=94, I
> suggest to say =93SDP FEC-declaration attribute=94. (Also applies to =
the
> description of the other attributes).
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> [email protected]
>=20
> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited
> Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL
> Registered in England 283
>=20
>=20
> <Attached Message =
Part.txt>_______________________________________________
> Rmt mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Thanks Martin,<div><br></div><div>We will rally the troops to address =
these.</div><div><br></div><div>beset =
regards,</div><div><br></div><div><br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>Brian =
Adamson</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><=
/div><div><br></div></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Martin Stiemerling =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>FYI, the first email about the SDP review of =
draft-ietf-rmt-flute-sdp-03. I will also forward the 2nd email, just in =
a second.<br><br>There a number of points that require attention. See =
below.<br><br> Martin<br><br>-- <br>IETF Transport Area =
Director<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]<=
/a><br><br>NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC =
Europe Limited<br>Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London =
W3 6BL<br>Registered in England 283<br><br><br>-------- Original Message =
--------<br>Subject: <span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>[MMUSIC] SDP Directorate: Review =
of draft-ietf-rmt-flute-sdp-03<br>Date: <span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:30:04 =
+0000<br>From: <span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Christer Holmberg &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>To: =
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>[email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>CC: <span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>[email protected]<br>&lt;draft-ietf-rmt-flute=
[email protected]&gt;<br><br><br><br>Hi,<br><br>I am the assigned SDP =
directorate reviewer for<br><br>draft-ietf-rmt-flute-sdp-03<br><br>For =
background on the SDP directorate, please see the FAQ =
at<br><br>http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/sdp.html<br><br>Please =
wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD before<br>posting a =
new version of the draft.<br><br>SUMMARY:<br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D<br><br>I have technical concerns with a number of the technical =
content of this<br>document, and at least the =93Composite Session=94 =
concept, as currently<br><br>defined in the document, would need to be =
discussed in MMUSIC. I think<br>they need to be resolved/clarified =
before this document can be =
published.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Christer<br><br>------------------------=
--------------------------------<br><br>TECHNICAL<br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D<br><br>General:<br><br>------------<br><br>T-GEN-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;The draft seems to define a new generic SDP<br>mechanism, =93Composite=
 Session=94, for grouping media streams into<br>protocol-specific =
sessions. I am not really sure what that means, but it<br>seems to go =
outside the scope of FLUTE. I also think it overlaps with<br>the SDP =
BUNDLE work, and such work shall be done in MMUSIC.<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=93The Composite Session mechanism enables the =
grouping<br>of media lines<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;in to distinct sessions. &nbsp;The complete =
Composite<br>Session semantics<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are protocol-specific - as determined by the =
protocol<br>id of the<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;grouped media lines.=94<br><br>T-GEN-2: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;Maybe I=92ve missed it, but it is a little unclear<br>to me why the =
grouping framework is needed in the first place. If that<br>is described =
somewhere, please tell me :)<br><br>In section 3.2.1, the text =
says:<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=93The Composite Session provides an unambiguous =
way to<br>define multiple<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;FLUTE sessions as distinct from multiple =
the<br>media-sessions semantics<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of RTP.=94<br><br>But, what is the technical need =
for this?<br><br>T-GEN-3: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;The draft uses the same source address for every<br>m- line =
associated with a group, but it uses different addresses in each<br>m- =
line. Aren=92t the media streams symmetric?<br><br>T-GEN-4: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;There is chapter describing the SDP Offer/Answer<br>aspects. How is =
the answer generated? What if the answerer does not<br>support (or, =
supports, but don=92t want to use) the mechanism?<br><br>If the =
mechanism is not to be used with SDP Offer/Answer, but e.g. for<br>some =
kind of declaration, I think that needs to be described.<br><br>Section =
1:<br><br>-------------<br><br>T-1-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The text says:<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=93Note, this document may also be used to =
describe<br>sessions of the<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;experimental FLUTE specification =
[RFC3926].=94<br><br>I think you need to indicate whether or not there =
will be any changes in<br>the usage of SDP in that case.<br><br>Section =
3.2:<br><br>---------------<br><br>T-3-2: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would like to have some input =
from the<br>MMUSIC community whether =93FLUTE/UDP/ESP=94 is appropriate =
to describe a<br>IPSec encrypted FLUTE channel, or whether something =
like =93SFLUTE/UDP=94<br>should be used instead.<br><br>Section =
3.11:<br><br>-----------------<br><br>T-3_11-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;As=
 the syntax mandates at least one fmt value, I<br>suggest that the =
document specifies which value SHALL be =
used.<br><br>EDITORIAL<br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>General:<=
br><br>-----------<br><br>E-GEN-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;The Abstract and Introduction needs to explicitly<br>state that the =
specification defines a new SDP grouping framework value.<br>The =
Abstract also needs to mention the new SDP protocol =
values.<br><br>Section 1:<br><br>-------------<br><br>E-1-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;s/defines two new protocol =
identifiers/defines<br>two new SDP protocol values<br><br>E-1-2: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I suggest to remove =93The =
formal ABNF syntax<br>[RFC5234] is used for the attributes.=94 It only =
needs to be stated in the<br>section defining the new SDP =
attributes.<br><br>Section 3:<br><br>-------------<br><br>E-3-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I think the second last =
paragraph, comparing<br>FLUTE with RTP media streams, sessions etc is =
confusing. I think it is<br>enough to describe that each SDP m- line =
represents a FLUTE channel.<br><br>Section =
3.1:<br><br>---------------<br><br>E-3_1-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;I would suggest to have a new parent chapter,<br>=93SDP =
Extensions=94, with sub-chapters defining the new SDP =
protocol<br>values, attributes etc.<br><br>Section =
3.11:<br><br>-----------------<br><br>E-3_11-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I =
suggest to remove this section. It=92s not needed,<br>and I don=92t even =
agree with the content.<br><br>Section =
4:<br><br>-------------<br><br>E-4-1: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Instead of saying =
=93a=3DFEC-declaration line=94, I<br>suggest to say =93SDP =
FEC-declaration attribute=94. (Also applies to the<br>description of the =
other attributes).<br><br><br>-- =
<br>[email protected]<br><br>NEC Laboratories Europe - =
Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited<br>Registered Office: NEC =
House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL<br>Registered in England =
283<br><br><br><span>&lt;Attached Message =
Part.txt&gt;</span>_______________________________________________<br>Rmt =
mailing =
list<br>[email protected]<br>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt<br></div=
></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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