[saag] Minutes Posted//RE: AI Agent Security Side Meeting Fr iendly Reminder
"Liuchunchi\(Peter\)" <[email protected]> Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:02:12 +0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.saag,gmane.ietf.oauth |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear SAAG, A2A, OAuth, WIMSE, SCIM, SPICE<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b>The minu=
tes of the</b>
<b>AI Agent Security Side Meeting is posted at </b><a href=3D"https://githu=
b.com/liuchunchi/IETF125-AI-Agent-Security-Side-Meeting/blob/main/minutes.m=
d">https://github.com/liuchunchi/IETF125-AI-Agent-Security-Side-Meeting/blo=
b/main/minutes.md</a>.
<b>Recordings and materials are also ready in this repository.<o:p></o:p></=
b></p>
<div style=3D"mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:double =
windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<h2 style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:16.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328">Minutes=
for IETF 125 AI Agent Security Side Meeting<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<p style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligature=
s: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-=
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decor=
ation-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328">T=
he IETF 125 AI Agent Security Side Meeting took place on Thursday from 11:1=
5 to 12:30 in the Hunan room. The session was well received, drawing strong=
interest from approximately 40 onsite and 60
remote participants, with positive feedback. The agenda featured five key =
presentations focused on:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4;background:w=
hite;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Gap analysis of=
current security standards.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-ali=
gn:left;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Authentication =
and authorization requirements, specifically for cross-domain agent-to-agen=
t communication.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"col=
or:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-=
list:l4 level1 lfo4;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Proposed securi=
ty layers and potential future work items for the IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></=
li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-marg=
in-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4;background:white=
;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Auditability an=
d accountability frameworks.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligature=
s: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-=
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decor=
ation-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px">
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1=
F2328">Current risks and gaps identified:</span></strong><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5;background:w=
hite;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">AI Agent securi=
ty risks partially inherit from the LLM Top 10, with specific gaps includin=
g a lack of fine-grained access control, loss of security context, and insu=
fficient continuous security monitoring, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5;background:white;box-sizin=
g: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Threats against=
AI Agents are more implicit through payloads like prompt injection.<o:p></=
o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3=
.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5;bac=
kground:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Cross-domain se=
curity context (like authentication chaining, rich authorization) should be=
preserved across multiple domains when necessary. Privacy should be consid=
ered.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;=
margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l0 lev=
el1 lfo5;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">In general, net=
work experts are not able to perform threat modelling, threat analysis.<o:p=
></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligature=
s: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-=
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decor=
ation-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px">
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1=
F2328">Several consensus points achieved:</span></strong><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6;background:w=
hite;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Agents need to =
have individual identities and thus visibility.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-botto=
m-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6;background:white;box-siz=
ing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Reuse current s=
tandards and best practices like OAuth, WIMSE, SCIM=A1=AD as much as possib=
le.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;ma=
rgin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo6;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Respect each in=
dividual administrative domain or ecosystem=A1=AFs current security best pr=
actices, and focus on addressing trust gaps between proprietary and public-=
to-private domains. (There are some public domain
agent discovery works going on)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text=
-align:left;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6;background:white;box-sizing: border-box=
">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Consensus that =
a guidance or BCP to map existing standards to agent scenarios and identify=
minor gaps for extension would be useful.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6;background:white;box-sizing:=
border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Need further pr=
ivacy considerations for AI agent identity, authorization details, capabili=
ty, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F23=
28;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l1 =
level1 lfo6;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Runtime and sta=
tic integrity of AI should be considered to ensure audibility and complianc=
e.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligature=
s: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-=
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decor=
ation-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px">
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1=
F2328">Several controversial points:</span></strong><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: =
normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-web=
kit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decorati=
on-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px" start=3D=
"1" type=3D"1">
<li style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-list:=
l2 level1 lfo7;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Should we treat=
agent identities more like workload identities or human user identities?<b=
r>
a. Peter thinks agents are special workloads that maintain stateful informa=
tion between callers and LLM/tools, using which to complete ambiguous tasks=
.<br>
b. Diego mentioned 3 works[1] that tries to do identity chains on SPICE.<br=
>
c. Brian think agent identities are workloads thus should not go to SPICE.<=
br>
d. Usama is not sure (along with other participants).<br>
e. Daniel thinks this could be use case specific.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li=
style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-list:l2 =
level1 lfo7;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Should a dedica=
ted AI Security mailing list be created?<br>
a. Some (7~8 Peter Mike Roberta Arnaud Usama Henk Daniel Russ=A1=AD) people=
think it is best to have a dedicated discussion list (AISEC, for example),=
believing the A2A list is too crowded and broad.<br>
b. 2-ish (Brian and Dapeng) think discussion should stay in A2A, adding a [=
security] tag.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligature=
s: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-=
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decor=
ation-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px">
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1=
F2328">Next steps agreed onsite:</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family:=
"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo8;background:w=
hite;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Use Case Consol=
idation: Collect different agent application scenarios brought by network e=
xperts (mobile network, managed networks, Internet=A1=AD)<o:p></o:p></span>=
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo8;background:whi=
te;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Develop a new a=
gent security problem statement document, derive security requirements from=
the consolidated use case, and put it in the Google Doc/GitHub.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo8;backgro=
und:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Develop a map f=
rom existing standards to agent scenarios to help identify gaps. List and c=
ategorize new works.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;=
mso-list:l3 level1 lfo8;background:white;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Workshops/inter=
im: Regular meetings to iterate on the above documents.<o:p></o:p></span></=
li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-marg=
in-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo8;background:white=
;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Keep taking in =
useful input from external communities.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligature=
s: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-=
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decor=
ation-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px">
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1=
F2328">Considerations for the IESG:</span></strong><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo9;background:w=
hite;box-sizing: border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Are the securit=
y topics identified relevant for the IETF?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F2328;margin-top:3.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;text-align:left;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo9;background:white;box-sizing:=
border-box">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Should there be=
a dedicated AI Security (AISEC) mailing list to be created?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></li></ol>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0cm;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-var=
iant-ligatures: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:star=
t;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-thickness: initi=
al;text-decoration-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spaci=
ng:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1F2328">[=
1] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mw-spice-actor-ch=
ain/"><span style=3D"color:#0969DA">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
mw-spice-actor-chain/</span></a> <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/draft-mw-spice-inference-chain/"><span style=3D"color:#0969DA">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mw-spice-inference-chain/</span></a> =
;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mw-spice-intent-chain/">=
<span style=3D"color:#0969DA">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mw-spi=
ce-intent-chain/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Peter and participants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Liuchunchi(Peter) <l=
[email protected]>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2026</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:"=CE=
=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA",sans-serif">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:"Calibri",sans-serif">3</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"=
font-family:"=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA",sans-serif">=D4=C2</span><=
span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">18</span><span la=
ng=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:"=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA",sans=
-serif">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-se=
rif">
15:55<br>
<b>To:</b> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email protected]; [email protected]; daniel@oldd=
og.co.uk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [saag] AI Agent Security Side Meeting Friendly Reminder<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p> =
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello SAAG, OAuth, WIMSE, SCIM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a friendly reminder of the Thursday morning =
11:15-12:15
<b>AI Agent Security Side Meeting</b> @Hunan room.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We want this side meeting to be real problem-driven,=
clearing out people<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=A1=AF</span>s confusions, so the =
agenda items have included several useful analysis you may find interesting=
:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">1. Evidence-driven AI A=
gent security attack analysis (such as ClawJacked CVE)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">2. Real Multi-Agent-Sys=
tems business use-case, services flows, and their proposed security require=
ment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">3. Some real security c=
hallenges from close-up investigation in production systems that actually d=
eployed AI Agents.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">4. Attempted definition=
to AI Agents and summarization of general security gaps.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">5. Suggested AI Agent s=
ecurity framework that could point to a lot of useful future works.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Contributed by these insightful presentations:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l6 level1 =
lfo3">Agentic AI and AI Infra security scenario, risk analysis, existing wo=
rk and gaps, Presenter Chunchi Peter Liu<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoLis=
tParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo3">A New Model f=
or Authentication and Authorization of AI agent Interactions, Presenter Bri=
an Campbell<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:0cm;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo3">AI Integrity and Accountability, Presenter=
Henk Birkholz<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margi=
n-left:0cm;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo3">Agent Operation Authorization, Framewor=
k and Practices, Presenter Dapeng Liu<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListPa=
ragraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo3">Authentication a=
nd Authorization Framework for AI Agents, Presenter Daniel King<o:p></o:p><=
/li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://github.com/liuchunchi/IETF125-AI-=
Agent-Security-Side-Meeting">https://github.com/liuchunchi/IETF125-AI-Agent=
-Security-Side-Meeting</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We sincerely welcome you to join and discuss, identi=
fying the real gaps to fill.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Peter and proponents <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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