Re: CTP Issue 22: Authorization Token is obtained by truncating the results of the HMAC_SHA1 computation to retain only the leading 32 bits

Charlie Perkins <[email protected]>
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.seamoby
Organization Nokia
Message-ID <[email protected]>
Hello Jim,

Maybe it's time to insert rationality back into security protocol design.
I'm willing to stand the heat.  Mainly I am concerned about data fields
that have to be passed over the air.  Conservatism is indicated for this
reason, and the reward is less hogging the airwaves.

I am not worried about silicon, but in fact it would be nice if we
did try to avoid mandating every protocol to require a Pentium
processor.

Regards,
Charlie P.


James Kempf wrote:

>Hi Charlie,
>
>These are good arguments, but I don't see them swaying the security
>directorate. Assuming one instruction per cycle and perhaps 100 instructions
>to check, a 2 GHz Pentium can check about 20 million tokens per second.
>Assuming 200 ms active time, that's about 4 million tokens in the time that
>the token is active.
>
>One can argue with the details of the above calculation, but it is the kind
>of thing I'd expect to see pop out of a security review. Of course, I
>suppose we could argue that the document is Experimental anyway, so perfect
>security isn't necessary, but what's the harm in lengthening the field?
>
>            jak
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Charlie Perkins" <[email protected]>
>To: "James Kempf" <[email protected]>
>Cc: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [Seamoby] CTP Issue 22: Authorization Token is obtained by
>truncating the results of the HMAC_SHA1 computation to retain only the
>leading 32 bits
>
>
>  
>
>>Hello James,
>>
>>I don't think it is needed, for two reasons:
>>
>>- The authorization token is only going to be used once
>>
>>- The data being protected is only good for a few hundred
>>   milliseconds at most (typically).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Charlie P.
>>
>>
>>James Kempf wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Issue 22 suggests that 32 bits isn't enough for the authorization token.
>>>
>>>See http://danforsberg.info:8080/draft-ietf-seamoby-ctp/issue22 for
>>>      
>>>
>details.
>  
>
>>>Possible resolutions:
>>>
>>>1) Make the authorization token longer, say 64 bits.
>>>2) Keep the authorization token at 32 bits.
>>>
>>>Suggested resolution: Make the authorization token longer, say 64 bits.
>>>Justification: The probability of a birthday attack is proportional to
>>>2**(sqrt(n)), where n is the number of bits in the identifier. If n is
>>>      
>>>
>32,
>  
>
>>>then sqrt(n) is 16, which is not enough protection (65536). Making n
>>>      
>>>
>equal
>  
>
>>>64 means sqrt(n) is 32 (over 4 billion) which should be enough.
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Seamoby mailing list
>>>[email protected]
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
lmpx.com only provides a reader for public news (NNTP) servers. It is not affiliated with the servers or forums shown here and is not responsible for the content of articles, which is written by their respective authors.