Re: SIMPLE and Emergency Services
"Olle E. Johansson" <[email protected]> Thu, 1 Nov 2012 19:27:16 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.simple |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============8358859101974054556== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ED92D10D-6823-4F42-B3D3-E37C48A639B8" --Apple-Mail=_ED92D10D-6823-4F42-B3D3-E37C48A639B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 1 nov 2012 kl. 16:44 skrev "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" = <[email protected]>: > Release 11 of 3GPP IMS specifications add session based media to = emergency call usage in addition to voice and real time text. For = messaging, that includes MSRP. > =20 > While many countries are trying to ensure that PSAPs can handle SMS = (which is not session based), this needs to be regarded as something = that exists where nothing else does =96 as it provides the responder = with no ability to interrogate the user to obtain more information. > =20 > For presence, nothing special has been specified by 3GPP. Keith, Please guide me through this. Is 3gpp not using the OMA specs?=20 For me that is classified as "special" and not part of the IETF specs. = :-) If not, have 3gpp tested interoperability of SIMPLE across vendors? The = ability to add buddies and share buddy lists, regardless of client? Just = curious of the process. /O > =20 > Keith > =20 > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On = Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > Sent: 31 October 2012 22:08 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and Emergency Services > =20 > In response to Olle's question about whether SIMPLE is an abject and = irredeemable failure, I would note that SIMPLE is still under = consideration for use in emergency services, if only because XMPP isn't = yet a viable alternative. For > example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP mention SIMPLE, but refer to = XMPP > support of emergency services as future work. In emergency scenarios, = presence > and address books are typically not considered since the PSAP is = neither a > presentity nor a watcher. Instead, SIMPLE is used as a way of = conveying > information between the caller and PSAP, including location, a message = body and > additional data.=20 >=20 > With SMS to 911 under active > discussion with regulatory bodies, the question about whether we can = rely on > SIMPLE for emergency use has become a "hot issue". As an example, > there has been a suggestion that MESSAGE could be used to support = conveyance of SMS text messages to a > "text gateway" that would then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly in > a different form, such as translating to TTY/TDD). Not only might = this > help standardize the transport of SMS messages to 911, but it would = also > support future uses of MESSAGE for next generation emergency services.=20= >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP still point > to SIMPLE specs, some folks have pointed to the lack of support for = MESSAGE in > SIP trunking services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE = are > unlikely to see much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled = access to > emergency services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be given = priority.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > IMHO, unless XMPP for emergency uses is specified by IETF > in the near future, it is likely that SIMPLE will find its way into = emergency > services architectures in some form. Since the IETF is still = recommending > SIMPLE in documents such as ECRIT PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF has a = responsibility > to public safety to address interop issues that will arise in next = generation > emergency services scenarios. AFAIK, SIMPLE interop issues haven't = killed > anyone yet. Hopefully this will remain true in the future.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Olle E. Johansson said:=20 >=20 >=20 > "Any other thoughts in regards to SIMPLE? > =20 > Is it a failure or not? > =20 > Do we have a chance of fixing this within the IETF? > =20 > Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG goal of = interoperability?" > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --Apple-Mail=_ED92D10D-6823-4F42-B3D3-E37C48A639B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"><base href=3D"x-msg://17/"></head><body = style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>1 nov 2012 kl. = 16:44 skrev "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.= com</a>>:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"#606420" = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = "><div class=3D"Section1" style=3D"page: Section1; "><div style=3D"margin:= 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Release 11 of 3GPP IMS = specifications add session based media to emergency call usage in = addition to voice and real time text. For messaging, that includes = MSRP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">While many = countries are trying to ensure that PSAPs can handle SMS (which is not = session based), this needs to be regarded as something that exists where = nothing else does =96 as it provides the responder with no ability to = interrogate the user to obtain more = information.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">For = presence, nothing special has been specified by = 3GPP.</span></font></div></div></div></blockquote>Keith,</div><div>Please = guide me through this. Is 3gpp not using the OMA = specs? </div><div><br></div><div>For me that is classified as = "special" and not part of the IETF specs. = :-)</div><div><br></div><div>If not, have 3gpp tested interoperability = of SIMPLE across vendors? The ability to add buddies and share buddy = lists, regardless of client? Just curious of the = process.</div><div><br></div><div>/O</div><div><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"#606420" = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = "><div class=3D"Section1" style=3D"page: Section1; "><div style=3D"margin:= 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" = color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = ">Keith<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; = border-left-color: blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt; "><div><div = class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; = "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; "><hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"= tabindex=3D"-1"></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font = size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; = ">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, = 32); text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:simple-<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, 32); = text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a>]<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span = style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Bernard = Aboba<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>31 October 2012 = 22:08<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, 32); = text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a><br><b><span = style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and = Emergency Services</span></font><span = lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm = 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "> </span></font></div><div><h1 style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; = margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 24pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = font-weight: bold; "><b><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; = ">In response to Olle's question about whether SIMPLE is an abject and = irredeemable failure, I would note that SIMPLE is still under = consideration for use in emergency services, if only because XMPP isn't = yet a viable alternative.<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; ">For example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP mention SIMPLE, but refer to = XMPP support of emergency services as future work. In emergency scenarios, = presence and address books are typically not considered since the PSAP is neither = a presentity nor a watcher. Instead, SIMPLE is used as a way of = conveying information between the caller and PSAP, including location, a message = body and additional data. </span></font></b><font = face=3D"Calibri"><o:p></o:p></font></h1><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm = 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; = "><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; ">With SMS to = 911 under active discussion with regulatory bodies, the question about whether we can = rely on SIMPLE for emergency use has become a "hot issue". As an example, there has been a suggestion that MESSAGE could be used to </span><span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; ">support conveyance of SMS text = messages to a "text gateway" that would then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly in a different form, such as translating to TTY/TDD). Not only might = this help standardize the transport of SMS messages to 911, but it would also support future uses of MESSAGE for next generation emergency services. = </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; "><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </span></div><div><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Calibri; ">While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT = PhoneBCP still point to SIMPLE specs, some folks have pointed to the lack of support for = MESSAGE in SIP trunking services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE = are unlikely to see much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled = access to emergency services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be given = priority. </span><o:p></o:p></font></div> </span></div><div><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Calibri; "><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </span></div><div><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Calibri; ">IMHO, unless XMPP for emergency uses is = specified by IETF in the near future, it is likely that SIMPLE will find its way into = emergency services architectures in some form. Since the IETF is still = recommending SIMPLE in documents such as ECRIT PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF has a = responsibility to public safety to address interop issues that will arise in next = generation emergency services scenarios. AFAIK, SIMPLE interop issues haven't = killed anyone yet. Hopefully this will remain true in the future. = </span><o:p></o:p></font></div> </span></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; "><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></span></font></div></div><div><span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; ">Olle E. Johansson said: </span><o:p></o:p></font></div> </span></div><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; white-space: pre-wrap; word-wrap: = break-word; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Calibri; ">"Any other thoughts in regards to = SIMPLE?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = "> </span></font></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = ">Is it a failure or not?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: = 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = "> </span></font></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = ">Do we have a chance of fixing this within the = IETF?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = "> </span></font></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = ">Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG goal of = interoperability?"<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; "> </span></font></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = "> </span></font></pre></div></div></div>____________________________= ___________________<br>Simple mailing list<br><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, 32); = text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a><br><a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple" style=3D"color: = rgb(96, 100, 32); text-decoration: underline; = ">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple</a><br></div></blockquote><= /div><br></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_ED92D10D-6823-4F42-B3D3-E37C48A639B8-- --===============8358859101974054556== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============8358859101974054556==--