Re: draft-kuthan-sip-derive

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hadriel Kaplan [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: 17 November 2008 15:57
> To: Adam Roach; Dean Willis
> Cc: [email protected]; 'SIP IETF'; 
> [email protected]; [email protected]; Elwell, 
> John; Dan Wing; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [Sip] draft-kuthan-sip-derive
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Adam Roach [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:24 AM
> >
> > On 11/17/08 9:17 AM, Dean Willis wrote:
> > > What IS important is that we understand that no such 
> feature can be
> > > made to work with an SBC that is actively disrupting it.
> >
> > And that's my point. Hadriel stood up and effectively said 
> "SBCs break
> > everything. If you want identity to work, you need to find something
> > that SBCs don't break."
> 
> Actually, I'm pretty sure I said *B2BUA's* change the Call-ID 
> and tags, and that there were far more than just SBCs.  
> Honestly, most every box I see traces from appears to be a 
> b2bua of some form or other these days. (of course that's 
> probably because of the types of networks my product's in to 
> begin with, so it's a myopic view I know)
[JRE] funny you should say that - my eyesight seems to be suffering in
the same way.

John


> 
> 
> > My understanding of set theory is somewhat rudimentary, but 
> I am fairly
> > certain that the inverse of the universe is the null set, 
> and that the
> > intersection of the null set and anything else will always 
> be the null
> > set.
> > So, unless you can point out the flaw in that logic, then the only
> > progress we can make is by ignoring SBCs and hope they catch up.
> 
> The set of the universe is not germane to the issue at hand.  
> Many B2BUA's change call-id+tags; that says nothing about 
> whether they change other things.  And it says nothing about 
> their motivation for the changes.
> 
> SBC's cannot "catch up" to not change call-id's - it's what 
> their owners want them to do.  Speaking as just one vendor, 
> we don't change call-id's and tags by *default*.  Virtually 
> EVERYONE changes that default behavior and configures us to 
> change the call-id and tags as soon as they install the 
> system.  That doesn't mean they will change anything no 
> matter what - they have specific motivation for changing the 
> call-id.  The IETF SIP WG gave them that motivation, by 
> putting an IP Address in it.  That was a mistake.  It was a 
> big mistake.
> 
> -hadriel
> 
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