RE: SMIng consensus issues restated, call for consensus ends Sept embe r 18, 2002
"Harrington, David" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Sep 2002 06:29:12 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.sming |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <6D745637A7E0F94DA070743C55CDA9BA0757B4@NHROCMBX1.ets.enterasys.com> |
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C25590.3DD4721F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, Bert has said that indictaing agreement is a good thing, so ... comments inline. dbh > -----Original Message----- > From: Durham, David [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:25 PM > To: '[email protected]' > Cc: Durham, David > Subject: SMIng consensus issues restated, call for consensus ends > Septembe r 18, 2002 > > > I have prepared this message to the mailing list to initiate > a last call on > the wg consensus for items raised during the IETF and interim > meetings. This > last call is also for the edification of those on the list > who have not > read/commented on the meeting minutes. > > There are several items that achieved clear consensus in the > wg meetings. > This mail is to confirm that the mailing list is not of a > different opinion. > > There is consensus that it is a requirement: > > 1. That the sming supports N-levels of nesting. This includes > the nesting of > complex data structures, unions, and multidimensional > constructs such as > arrays. [See the 53rd IETF SMIng meeting minutes for more details] agreed. > > 2. That the sming take advantage of the hierarchical oid namespace to > achieve consensus item number 1. That is, the naming scheme should map > directly to the n-levels of nesting as is in Andy Bierman's > smi-ds proposal. > [See the 53rd IETF SMIng meeting minutes for more details] I think it is a useful constraint to keep us focused on resolving fairly-well-understood problems using a language that is fairly-well-understood within the SNMP community. It was my understanding that the decision to continue using OIDs was agreed to for these reasons, but that if we found the problems could not be solved easily using the OID hierarchy, that we might consider alternative languages such as XML. Since we had the discussion in DC, however, I get the impression that some people are trying to "tighten up" that consensus to make *only* OID solutions acceptable. From the minutes of that DC meeting: "* Continue using SMI syntax as much as possible: Yes (for the time being)" Let me be very clear about my intentions raising this point. I believe XML is being oversold, although it has potential. By constraining ourselves to the OID solution for discussing the nature of the problems, we can focus on solving the problems, not on religious debate. Andy's proposal looks very good, and we should try to make it work, but we shouldn't be constrained from exploring other avenues in the future if we find that it gets "too" complex (where "too" is subject to future debate). > > 3. The smiv2 definitions be convertible to sming (meaning > that sming is > backwards compatible with smiv2). It is not a requirement > that new sming > definitions map back to the smiv2. [See the June 2002 SMIng > Interim meeting > minutes for more details] > Just to tighten up this language a bit. I believe meeting consensus was that complete v2-to-v3 conversion is a goal, not a requirement (a SHOULD not a MUST). > 4. The existing smi look-and-feel will be preserved where > possible. There > are exceptions for new constructs in the sming language. > Also, where the > existing smi syntax is broken it should be fixed. [See the > 53rd IETF SMIng > meeting minutes and June Interim meeting minutes for more details] As discussed under #2, I think it is importnat to mention the parenthetical clause: "* Continue using SMI syntax as much as possible: Yes (for the time being)" > > 5. Backward compatibility of the new sming with the SPPI is not a > requirement. [See the 54th IETF SMIng meeting minutes for > more details] > Agreed. 6. SMIv3 will be the output of this working group. Agreed. > Note that the last call period for these items ends in two weeks, on > September 18th. > > Cheers, > -Dave > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C25590.3DD4721F Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2655.35"> <TITLE>RE: SMIng consensus issues restated, call for consensus ends = Septembe r 18, 2002</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bert has said that indictaing agreement is a good = thing, so ...</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>comments inline.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>dbh</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> From: Durham, David [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]</A>= ]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:25 = PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> To: '[email protected]'</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Cc: Durham, David</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Subject: SMIng consensus issues restated, call = for consensus ends</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Septembe r 18, 2002</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> I have prepared this message to the mailing = list to initiate </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> a last call on</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> the wg consensus for items raised during the = IETF and interim </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> meetings. This</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> last call is also for the edification of those = on the list </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> who have not</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> read/commented on the meeting minutes.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> There are several items that achieved clear = consensus in the </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> wg meetings.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> This mail is to confirm that the mailing list = is not of a </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> different opinion.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> There is consensus that it is a = requirement:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> 1. That the sming supports N-levels of nesting. = This includes </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> the nesting of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> complex data structures, unions, and = multidimensional </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> constructs such as</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> arrays. [See the 53rd IETF SMIng meeting = minutes for more details] </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>agreed.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> 2. That the sming take advantage of the = hierarchical oid namespace to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> achieve consensus item number 1. That is, the = naming scheme should map</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> directly to the n-levels of nesting as is in = Andy Bierman's </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> smi-ds proposal.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> [See the 53rd IETF SMIng meeting minutes for = more details] </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I think it is a useful constraint to keep us focused = on resolving fairly-well-understood problems using a language that is = fairly-well-understood within the SNMP community. It was my = understanding that the decision to continue using OIDs was agreed to = for these reasons, but that if we found the problems could not be = solved easily using the OID hierarchy, that we might consider = alternative languages such as XML. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Since we had the discussion in DC, however, I get the = impression that some people are trying to "tighten up" that = consensus to make *only* OID solutions acceptable.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>From the minutes of that DC meeting: "* Continue = using SMI syntax as much as possible: Yes (for the time = being)"</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Let me be very clear about my intentions raising this = point. I believe XML is being oversold, although it has potential. By = constraining ourselves to the OID solution for discussing the nature of = the problems, we can focus on solving the problems, not on religious = debate. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Andy's proposal looks very good, and we should try to = make it work, but we shouldn't be constrained from exploring other = avenues in the future if we find that it gets "too" complex = (where "too" is subject to future debate).</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> 3. The smiv2 definitions be convertible to = sming (meaning </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> that sming is</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> backwards compatible with smiv2). It is not a = requirement </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> that new sming</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> definitions map back to the smiv2. [See the = June 2002 SMIng </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Interim meeting</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> minutes for more details] </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Just to tighten up this language a bit. I believe = meeting consensus was that complete v2-to-v3 conversion is a goal, not = a requirement (a SHOULD not a MUST).</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> 4. The existing smi look-and-feel will be = preserved where </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> possible. There</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> are exceptions for new constructs in the sming = language. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Also, where the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> existing smi syntax is broken it should be = fixed. [See the </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> 53rd IETF SMIng</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> meeting minutes and June Interim meeting = minutes for more details] </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>As discussed under #2, I think it is importnat to = mention the parenthetical clause: "* Continue using SMI syntax as = much as possible: Yes (for the time being)"</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> 5. Backward compatibility of the new sming with = the SPPI is not a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> requirement. [See the 54th IETF SMIng meeting = minutes for </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> more details] </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Agreed.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>6. SMIv3 will be the output of this working = group.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Agreed.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Note that the last call period for these items = ends in two weeks, on</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> September 18th.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Cheers,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -Dave</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C25590.3DD4721F--