Re: [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion Signaling (CSIG)

Hi,

I also have the same feeling. Implementing in L2 may be difficult to be used in e2e transport. Of course it can work well in limited domain, like DC or HPC clusters. However, I also look for some solutions that could be able to go through internet. We have submitted a draft to describe the transport challenges. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-tsvwg-transport-challenges.

I share the same opinion that the congestion signal is useful and current 1-bit ECN solution is not fully sufficient. But I also feel like the more straight way is to extend L3, or l4, like update IOAM, to carry the information. For L2 solution, it should be developed together with IEEE 802.1.

BR，
Rachel

发件人: iccrg <[email protected]> 代表 Tom Herbert
发送时间: 2023年9月10日 0:10
收件人: Abhiram Ravi <[email protected]>
抄送: IETF IPPM WG <[email protected]>; tsvwg <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; Nandita Dukkipati <[email protected]>; Naoshad Mehta <[email protected]>; Jai Kumar <[email protected]>
主题: Re: [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion Signaling (CSIG)

Hi, thanks for draft!

The first thing that stands out to me is the carrier of the new packet headers. In the forward path it would be in L2 and in reflection it would be L4. As the draft describes, this would entail having to support the protocol in multiple L2 and multiple L4 protocols-- that's going to be a pretty big lift! Also, L2 is not really an end-to-end protocol (would legacy switches in the path also forward the header)l?).

The signaling being described in the draft is network layer information, and hence IMO should be conveyed in network layer headers. That's is L3 which conveniently is the average of L2+L4 :-)

IMO, the proper carrier of the signal data is Hop-by-Hop Options. This is end-to-end and allows modification of data in-flight. The typical concern with Hop-by-Hop Options is high drop rates on the Internet, however in this case the protocol is explicitly confined to a limited domain so I don't see that as a blocking issue for this use case.

The information being carried seems very similar to that of IOAM (IOAM uses Hop-by-Hop Options and supports reflection). I suppose the differences are that this protocol is meant to be consumed by the transport Layer and the data is a condensed summary of path characteristics. IOAM seems pretty extensible, so maybe it could be adapted to carry the signals of this draft?

A related proposal might be FAST draft-herbert-fast. Where the CSIG is network to host signaling, FAST is host to network signaling for the purposes of requesting network services. These might be complementary and options for both may be in the same packet. FAST also uses reflection, so we might be able to leverage some common implementation at a destination.

Tom

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 7:43 PM Abhiram Ravi <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi IPPM folks,

I am pleased to announce the publication of a new internet draft, Congestion Signaling (CSIG): https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ravi-ippm-csig/

CSIG is a new end-to-end packet header mechanism for in-band signaling that is simple, efficient, deployable, and grounded in concrete use cases of congestion control, traffic management, and network debuggability. We believe that CSIG is an important new protocol that builds on top of existing in-band network telemetry protocols.

We encourage you to read the CSIG draft and provide your feedback and comments. We have also cc'd the TSVWG, CCWG, and ICCRG mailing lists, as we believe that this work may be of interest to their members as well.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
Abhiram Ravi
On behalf of the CSIG authors

_______________________________________________
iccrg mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/iccrg