[Witarea] Re: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage
Nick Buraglio <[email protected]> Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:33:16 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.tsv-area,gmane.ietf.general,gmane.ietf.v6ops |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CACMsEX-SYkbZJ-Vy8NyROFRo=e=u-v-PUf5OTJejT=_NwBDHjw@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============3045990955813561443== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005a56eb0653cfa82a" --0000000000005a56eb0653cfa82a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is basically the same experience we had. We=E2=80=99re more of less us= ing cilium for all networking. nb On Sun, Jun 7, 2026 at 20:38 Franck Martin <[email protected]> wrote: > I spent some time diving into various K8S deployments. K8S is great, but > you really really need to standardize your deployments. And because K8S > uses eBPF, and sometimes some network namespaces and sometimes not, you c= an > no longer trust /proc/net to tell you the reality. you need to dive into > the namespaces too... > > so K8S NAT is often not stored in the routing or iptable, but in eBPF, an= d > it is very hard to get that information when you are on the host itself..= . > At least that was my experience. > > having K8S with IPv6-only makes life much easier. > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Nick Buraglio" <[email protected]> > *To: *"Xipengxiao" <[email protected]> > *Cc: *"Franck Martin" <[email protected]>, "Brian E Carpenter" < > [email protected]>, "S Moonesamy" <[email protected]>, > "witarea" <[email protected]>, "ietf" <[email protected]>, "v6ops" < > [email protected]> > *Sent: *Sunday, June 7, 2026 8:32:24 AM > *Subject: *Re: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage > > +1 > > We have done k8s with IPv6-only in our data centers and once the initial > hurdles are past, it is significantly easier to work with. > Where the complications lie are in the random libraries inside of random > containers, and in some cases in the container repositories. > I=E2=80=99m curious to see what your experience is/was, and how it differ= ed from > ours, if at all. > > nb > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 10:21 Xipengxiao <xipengxiao=3D > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Franck, >> >> You are very welcome to take the lead on "Deploying IPv6 in the Data >> Center/Enterprises". We look forward to your drafts. >> >> XiPeng >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Franck Martin <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2026 1:51 AM >> To: Brian E Carpenter <[email protected]> >> Cc: S Moonesamy <[email protected]>; witarea <[email protected]>; ietf >> <[email protected]>; [email protected] >> Subject: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage >> >> Adding v6ops to the list of Cc >> >> Brian, >> >> Getting myself up to date with the v6ops. >> >> I see there is a milestone to adopt by dec 2026 Deploying IPv6 in the >> Data Center and Deploying IPv6 in the Enterprise. I have some experience >> with this having done that at LinkedIn and been very close to an IPv6-on= ly >> deployment. I also was aware of what was happening at the mothership at >> Microsoft. >> >> I don=E2=80=99t see any lead for this besides the WG chair. I would be h= appy to >> contribute and may be to reach out to folks. I quickly looked through th= e >> archives but did not see anything obvious on those topics. >> >> Franck >> >> > On Jun 3, 2026, at 15:34, Brian E Carpenter < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Franck, >> > >> > You definitely need to keep [email protected] aware of this. >> > >> > I assume you are aware of >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only/ and other >> work in v6ops related to IPv6-only and IPv6-mostly. >> > >> > Regards/Ng=C4=81 mihi >> > Brian Carpenter >> > >> > On 04-Jun-26 09:29, Franck Martin wrote: >> >> Moving to Witarea, but keeping ietf in the loop for the moment. >> >> Hi Surya, >> >> Many thanks for those great points. >> >>> On Jun 3, 2026, at 13:00, S Moonesamy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi Franck, >> >>> >> >>> [Cc to witarea@] >> >>> >> >>> At 11:32 AM 03-06-2026, Franck Martin wrote: >> >>>> Today I submitted this Internet Draft (I-D) to the IETF >> >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-retry-over-ipv6/ >> >>>> >> >>>> I have been building this site: pacific.ipv6forum.com and I have >> been wondering, how could I do an IPv4 outage on this site on 6/6? >> >>>> >> >>>> I have also seen that Czechoslovakia has mandated the end of IPv4 o= n >> government sites on 6/6/2032, 6 years from now. >> >>>> >> >>>> I also recall (from recent experience) that it is relatively easy t= o >> reach >90% of IPv6 connections to an internal network (think datacenter)= , >> but the remaining last % are difficult to identify (or discard) because >> services may misbehave and prefer IPv4 from time to time: You don't know= if >> they can't really do IPv4 or if they did not bother to do IPv6. >> >>>> >> >>>> In an enterprise environment, micro-services are made redundant, >> there are multiple IPs and have fallback mechanisms when they encounter = a >> 5xx error on one endpoint. >> >>>> >> >>>> So, I started to work on this Internet Draft. It is ready for the >> first round of public comments. I suspect, if successful, it will take 1= or >> 2 years to make it a standard. Then an extra 1 or 2 years, before it is >> implemented on enough clients (and browsers), we will be just in time fo= r >> doing enough IPv4 outages on 6/6 to meet the 6/6/2032 deadline. >> >>> >> >>> There is a recent thread about IPv6 at >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/BxSOgbF34xbBcijtxf85Pfnb5tc/ >> I don't remember seeing anything resulting from that discussion. Having= a >> draft is, relatively, better than the usual email discussion. The draft >> falls under the WIT Area and v6ops (which is in another IETF Area). >> >> I quickly read the thread, and also asked for a summary. I agree with >> many points like : some mobiles are IPv6-only (T-Mobile, Reliance,=E2=80= =A6), some >> networks are IPv6-only on the management side (Comcast),.. StarLink is >> moving the needle A LOT in small countries, see countries on >> https://pacific.ipv6forum.com <https://pacific.ipv6forum.com>.. but yes >> the frontier is Entreprise adoption. I have some experience here that I= =E2=80=99m >> trying to share. >> >>> >> >>> Section 1.1 of the draft states that "Governments are also publishin= g >> fixed IPv4 end dates" and lists one example [1]. Are there any other >> governments which have a fixed end date? >> >> I am not aware of other governments that have published an equally >> >> specific =E2=80=9CIPv4 service ends on <date>=E2=80=9D policy for the= ir public >> >> services. Several others publish IPv6 transition *milestones* rather >> >> than a fixed IPv4 shutdown date =E2=80=94 for example, US OMB M-21-07= (80% of >> >> federal IP-enabled assets in IPv6-only environments by FY 2025, with >> >> strategic intent to phase out IPv4): >> >> https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf >> >> The Netherlands and others have long-standing IPv6 =E2=80=9Cuse-or-ex= plain=E2=80=9D or >> adoption targets, but not, to my knowledge, a single published IPv4 end >> date comparable to the Czech case. >> >> There was also a memo from the State of Washington going in the same >> >> direction=E2=80=A6 I used to track all those=E2=80=A6 looks like I ne= ed to do that >> again. >> >> And I agree that those memos come and go=E2=80=A6 Why? Because it is = not >> trivial, we (IETF?) ought to make it easier. >> >>> >> >>> Section 3 of the draft states that "Many operators plan to remove or >> disable IPv4 while retaining IPv6 service." Are those plans available o= n >> the operators' websites? >> >> I tend to abuse the word =E2=80=9CMany=E2=80=9D, you caught me! I mak= e a note to >> change it to =E2=80=9CSome" >> >> That being said: >> >> * Meta is IPv6-only in their data centers: >> >> https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legacy-s >> >> upport-on-ipv6-only-infra/ >> >> <https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legacy- >> >> support-on-ipv6-only-infra/> >> >> * Google Cloud has guidance for IPv6-only: >> >> https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-only-w >> >> orkloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64 >> >> <https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-only- >> >> workloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64> >> >> * All the could providers are moving to support IPv6 (because for >> >> instance K8S bring undue complexity when you use NAT, also with the >> >> explosion of AI agents, this will not be sustainable, I=E2=80=99m not= worry, >> >> they can afford to buy large chunks of IPv4 - side note: I spoke >> >> recently with a banker on why IPv4 is not on the balance sheet of >> >> companies?) >> >> * Cisco has an IPv6-only building: >> >> https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future >> >> <https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future> >> >> * Orange is considering IPv6-only: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE> >> >> * Microsoft has IPv6-only deployments (I know that in Azure this is >> >> way more complicated): >> >> https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/ >> >> <https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/> >> >> * LinkedIn is moving to Dual Stack and IPv6-only in their >> Datacenters. I may point you to the links in this post: >> https://www.patreon.com/posts/ipv6-in-lessons-159595711 where I share my >> experience with IPv6. >> >> On this last point, I want to say my motivation is more on how to mak= e >> life easier for internal deployments than external deployments. As such = I >> found out that making a software outage is easier than an infrastructure >> outage, and easier and faster to rollback. =E2=80=9CYou can=E2=80=99t fi= x what you don=E2=80=99t >> measure=E2=80=9D, if you can differentiate an IPv4 outage from any other= outage, >> then you don=E2=80=99t know what to fix. >> >> I=E2=80=99m not expecting the web browsers to implement anything fast= , but I >> think we can have =E2=80=9Cfaster=E2=80=9D implementation in open source= software like gRPC >> and Rest.Li to make life easier in enterprises, therefore impacting othe= r >> software in those enterprises, which will lead to make it easier on the >> public Internet... >> >> So thanks for all those valid points, I=E2=80=99ll figure out how to = better >> answer them in version -01. >> >> I tried to address the same with email, a while back. See those >> expired ID: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fallback= / >> < >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fallback= />, >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-selection= -ipv4-ipv6/ >> < >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-selection= -ipv4-ipv6/>. >> I hope this ID has a bit more chances. >> >> Franck >> >> PS: if any has more references of mandate or wannabe mandates, please >> let me know. >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> S. Moonesamy >> >>> >> >>> 1. The IPv6 adoption rate for a social network in that country is >> 35.2%. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> > > --0000000000005a56eb0653cfa82a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">This is basically the same experience we had. We=E2=80=99= re more of less using cilium for all networking.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"aut= o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">nb</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g= mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 7, = 2026 at 20:38 Franck Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">f= [email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20= 4);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se= rif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet= ica,sans-serif">I spent some time diving into various K8S deployments. K8S = is great, but you really really need to standardize your deployments. And b= ecause K8S uses eBPF, and sometimes some network namespaces and sometimes n= ot, you can no longer trust /proc/net to tell you the reality. you need to = dive into the namespaces too...</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet= ica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se= rif">so K8S NAT is often not stored in the routing or iptable, but in eBPF,= and it is very hard to get that information when you are on the host itsel= f... At least that was my experience.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,= helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s= ans-serif">having K8S with IPv6-only makes life much easier.</div><div styl= e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><hr id=3D"m_-8132224= 587898458546zwchr" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div st= yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b style=3D"font-family:aria= l,helvetica,sans-serif">From: </b>"Nick Buraglio" <<a href=3D"= mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family= :arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>><br><b sty= le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">To: </b>"Xipengxiao"= ; <xipengxiao=3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D= "_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">40huawei.com@dmar= c.ietf.org</a>><br><b style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">C= c: </b>"Franck Martin" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= rg" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">fran= [email protected]</a>>, "Brian E Carpenter" <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:ar= ial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>>, "S Moon= esamy" <<a href=3D"mailto:sm%[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>&= gt;, "witarea" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"= _blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</= a>>, "ietf" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_bl= ank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>>= , "v6ops" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>><br= ><b style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Sent: </b>Sunday, June= 7, 2026 8:32:24 AM<br><b style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">= Subject: </b>Re: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage<br></div></= div></div><div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si= ze:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se= rif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div d= ir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">+1</div><div d= ir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div= dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We have done= k8s with IPv6-only in our data centers and once the initial hurdles are pa= st, it is significantly easier to work with.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto" s= tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Where the complications lie= are in the random libraries inside of random containers, and in some cases= in the container repositories.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-= family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I=E2=80=99m curious to see what your exp= erience is/was, and how it differed from ours, if at all.=C2=A0</div><div d= ir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div= dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">nb</div><div= style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br><div class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla= ss=3D"gmail_attr" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, = Jun 5, 2026 at 10:21 Xipengxiao <xipengxiao=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40huawei= [email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"= style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]= rg</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= ;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hi Franck,<br> <br> You are very welcome to take the lead on "Deploying IPv6 in the Data C= enter/Enterprises".=C2=A0 We look forward to your drafts.<br> <br> XiPeng <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Franck Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"no= follow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,he= lvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>> <br> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2026 1:51 AM<br> To: Brian E Carpenter <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" re= l=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:a= rial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>><br> Cc: S Moonesamy <<a href=3D"mailto:sm%[email protected]" rel=3D"nofoll= ow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet= ica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>>; witarea <<a href=3D"mailto= :[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" s= tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>>; i= etf <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferre= r" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ietf@= ietf.org</a>>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopene= r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s= erif">[email protected]</a><br> Subject: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage<br> <br> Adding v6ops to the list of Cc<br> <br> Brian,<br> <br> Getting myself up to date with the v6ops.<br> <br> I see there is a milestone to adopt by dec 2026 Deploying IPv6 in the Data = Center and Deploying IPv6 in the Enterprise. I have some experience with th= is having done that at LinkedIn and been very close to an IPv6-only deploym= ent. I also was aware of what was happening at the mothership at Microsoft.= <br> <br> I don=E2=80=99t see any lead for this besides the WG chair. I would be happ= y to contribute and may be to reach out to folks. I quickly looked through = the archives but did not see anything obvious on those topics.<br> <br> Franck<br> <br> > On Jun 3, 2026, at 15:34, Brian E Carpenter <<a href=3D"mailto:bria= [email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">brian.e.carpenter@gma= il.com</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > Franck,<br> > <br> > You definitely need to keep <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"n= ofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,h= elvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a> aware of this.<br> > <br> > I assume you are aware of <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/= draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferre= r" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only/</a> and other work= in v6ops related to IPv6-only and IPv6-mostly.<br> > <br> > Regards/Ng=C4=81 mihi<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian Carpenter<br> > <br> > On 04-Jun-26 09:29, Franck Martin wrote:<br> >> Moving to Witarea, but keeping ietf in the loop for the moment.<br= > >> Hi Surya,<br> >> Many thanks for those great points.<br> >>> On Jun 3, 2026, at 13:00, S Moonesamy <<a href=3D"mailto:sm= %[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank= " style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a>= > wrote:<br> >>> <br> >>> Hi Franck,<br> >>> <br> >>> [Cc to witarea@]<br> >>> <br> >>> At 11:32 AM 03-06-2026, Franck Martin wrote:<br> >>>> Today I submitted this Internet Draft (I-D) to the IETF <b= r> >>>> <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-r= etry-over-ipv6/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"= _blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-retry-over-ipv6/</a><br> >>>> <br> >>>> I have been building this site: <a href=3D"http://pacific.= ipv6forum.com" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_b= lank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">pacific.ipv6forum.co= m</a> and I have been wondering, how could I do an IPv4 outage on this site= on 6/6?<br> >>>> <br> >>>> I have also seen that Czechoslovakia has mandated the end = of IPv4 on government sites on 6/6/2032, 6 years from now.<br> >>>> <br> >>>> I also recall (from recent experience) that it is relative= ly easy to reach >90% of IPv6 connections to an internal network (think = datacenter), but the remaining last % are difficult to identify (or discard= ) because services may misbehave and prefer IPv4 from time to time: You don= 't know if they can't really do IPv4 or if they did not bother to d= o IPv6.<br> >>>> <br> >>>> In an enterprise environment, micro-services are made redu= ndant, there are multiple IPs and have fallback mechanisms when they encoun= ter a 5xx error on one endpoint.<br> >>>> <br> >>>> So, I started to work on this Internet Draft. It is ready = for the first round of public comments. I suspect, if successful, it will t= ake 1 or 2 years to make it a standard. Then an extra 1 or 2 years, before = it is implemented on enough clients (and browsers), we will be just in time= for doing enough IPv4 outages on 6/6 to meet the 6/6/2032 deadline.<br> >>> <br> >>> There is a recent thread about IPv6 at <a href=3D"https://mail= archive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/BxSOgbF34xbBcijtxf85Pfnb5tc/" rel=3D"norefer= rer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:ar= ial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/BxSOgb= F34xbBcijtxf85Pfnb5tc/</a> I don't remember seeing anything resulting f= rom that discussion.=C2=A0 Having a draft is, relatively, better than the u= sual email discussion.=C2=A0 The draft falls under the WIT Area and v6ops (= which is in another IETF Area).<br> >> I quickly read the thread, and also asked for a summary. I agree w= ith many points like : some mobiles are IPv6-only (T-Mobile, Reliance,=E2= =80=A6), some networks are IPv6-only on the management side (Comcast),.. St= arLink is moving the needle A LOT in small countries, see countries on <a h= ref=3D"https://pacific.ipv6forum.com" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener n= oreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri= f">https://pacific.ipv6forum.com</a> <<a href=3D"https://pacific.ipv6for= um.com" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" s= tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://pacific.ipv6forum.c= om</a>>.. but yes the frontier is Entreprise adoption. I have some exper= ience here that I=E2=80=99m trying to share.<br> >>> <br> >>> Section 1.1 of the draft states that "Governments are als= o publishing fixed IPv4 end dates" and lists one example [1].=C2=A0 Ar= e there any other governments which have a fixed end date?<br> >> I am not aware of other governments that have published an equally= <br> >> specific =E2=80=9CIPv4 service ends on <date>=E2=80=9D polic= y for their public <br> >> services. Several others publish IPv6 transition *milestones* rath= er <br> >> than a fixed IPv4 shutdown date =E2=80=94 for example, US OMB M-21= -07 (80% of <br> >> federal IP-enabled assets in IPv6-only environments by FY 2025, wi= th <br> >> strategic intent to phase out IPv4): <br> >> <a href=3D"https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M= -21-07.pdf" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blan= k" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://www.whitehouse.= gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf</a><br> >> The Netherlands and others have long-standing IPv6 =E2=80=9Cuse-or= -explain=E2=80=9D or adoption targets, but not, to my knowledge, a single p= ublished IPv4 end date comparable to the Czech case.<br> >> There was also a memo from the State of Washington going in the sa= me <br> >> direction=E2=80=A6 I used to track all those=E2=80=A6 looks like I= need to do that again.<br> >> And I agree that those memos come and go=E2=80=A6 Why? Because it = is not trivial, we (IETF?) ought to make it easier.<br> >>> <br> >>> Section 3 of the draft states that "Many operators plan t= o remove or disable IPv4 while retaining IPv6 service."=C2=A0 Are thos= e plans available on the operators' websites?<br> >> I tend to abuse the word =E2=80=9CMany=E2=80=9D, you caught me! I = make a note to change it to =E2=80=9CSome"<br> >> That being said:<br> >>=C2=A0 * Meta is IPv6-only in their data centers: <br> >> <a href=3D"https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engine= ering/legacy-s" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_= blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://engineering= .fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legacy-s</a><br> >> upport-on-ipv6-only-infra/ <br> >> <<a href=3D"https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-en= gineering/legacy-" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target= =3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://engine= ering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legacy-</a><br> >> support-on-ipv6-only-infra/><br> >>=C2=A0 * Google Cloud has guidance for IPv6-only: <br> >> <a href=3D"https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/conne= ct-ipv6-only-w" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_= blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://cloud.googl= e.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-only-w</a><br> >> orkloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64 <br> >> <<a href=3D"https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/c= onnect-ipv6-only-" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target= =3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://cloud.= google.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-only-</a><br> >> workloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64><br> >>=C2=A0 * All the could providers are moving to support IPv6 (becaus= e for <br> >> instance K8S bring undue complexity when you use NAT, also with th= e <br> >> explosion of AI agents, this will not be sustainable, I=E2=80=99m = not worry, <br> >> they can afford to buy large chunks of IPv4 - side note: I spoke <= br> >> recently with a banker on why IPv4 is not on the balance sheet of = <br> >> companies?)<br> >>=C2=A0 * Cisco has an IPv6-only building: <br> >> <a href=3D"https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-th= e-future" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"= style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://blogs.cisco.com/n= etworking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future</a> <br> >> <<a href=3D"https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-o= f-the-future" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://blogs.cisco.c= om/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future</a>><br> >>=C2=A0 * Orange is considering IPv6-only: <br> >> <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE" rel=3D"n= oreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-fam= ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8= qE</a> <br> >> <<a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE" rel= =3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"fon= t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY= 1vwM8qE</a>><br> >>=C2=A0 * Microsoft has IPv6-only deployments (I know that in Azure = this is <br> >> way more complicated): <br> >> <a href=3D"https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-micros= oft/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" sty= le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://labs.ripe.net/author/= mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/</a> <br> >> <<a href=3D"https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-mi= crosoft/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"= style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://labs.ripe.net/aut= hor/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/</a>><br> >>=C2=A0 * LinkedIn is moving to Dual Stack and IPv6-only in their Da= tacenters. I may point you to the links in this post: <a href=3D"https://ww= w.patreon.com/posts/ipv6-in-lessons-159595711" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow n= oopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,= sans-serif">https://www.patreon.com/posts/ipv6-in-lessons-159595711</a> whe= re I share my experience with IPv6.<br> >> On this last point, I want to say my motivation is more on how to = make life easier for internal deployments than external deployments. As suc= h I found out that making a software outage is easier than an infrastructur= e outage, and easier and faster to rollback. =E2=80=9CYou can=E2=80=99t fix= what you don=E2=80=99t measure=E2=80=9D, if you can differentiate an IPv4 = outage from any other outage, then you don=E2=80=99t know what to fix.<br> >> I=E2=80=99m not expecting the web browsers to implement anything f= ast, but I think we can have =E2=80=9Cfaster=E2=80=9D implementation in ope= n source software like gRPC and Rest.Li to make life easier in enterprises,= therefore impacting other software in those enterprises, which will lead t= o make it easier on the public Internet...<br> >> So thanks for all those valid points, I=E2=80=99ll figure out how = to better answer them in version -01.<br> >> I tried to address the same with email, a while back. See those ex= pired ID: <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv= 6-to-ipv4-fallback/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target= =3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fallback/</a> <<a href= =3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fallbac= k/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style= =3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do= c/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fallback/</a>>, <a href=3D"https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-selection-ipv4-ipv6/" re= l=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"fo= nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-martin-smtp-target-host-selection-ipv4-ipv6/</a> <<a href=3D"https://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-selection-ipv4-ipv6/"= rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D= "font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-martin-smtp-target-host-selection-ipv4-ipv6/</a>>. I hope this ID h= as a bit more chances.<br> >> Franck<br> >> PS: if any has more references of mandate or wannabe mandates, ple= ase let me know.<br> >>> <br> >>> Regards,<br> >>> S. Moonesamy<br> >>> <br> >>> 1. The IPv6 adoption rate for a social network in that country= is 35.2%.<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> v6ops mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noo= pener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa= ns-serif">[email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel= =3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:ar= ial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> v6ops mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noo= pener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa= ns-serif">[email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel= =3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:ar= ial,helvetica,sans-serif">[email protected]</a><br> </blockquote></div></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div> --0000000000005a56eb0653cfa82a-- --===============3045990955813561443== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline LS0gCldpdGFyZWEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IC0tIHdpdGFyZWFAaWV0Zi5vcmcKVG8gdW5zdWJzY3Jp YmUgc2VuZCBhbiBlbWFpbCB0byB3aXRhcmVhLWxlYXZlQGlldGYub3JnCg== --===============3045990955813561443==--