Re: [v6ops] [Witarea] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage
Ted Lemon <[email protected]> Fri, 12 Jun 2026 14:18:37 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.general,gmane.ietf.tsv-area,gmane.ietf.v6ops |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--Apple-Mail=_EAE4AD5B-1583-4C2C-85C4-F883536BAB06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I mean, the original intended solution for the problem you've stated is = the DHCP leasequery and bulk leasequery functionality. It sounds like = you're saying that doesn't work, though? The point of a lifetime promise is to say "we aren't going to yank this = back from you until T, but please renew at .001T" to satisfy your = reasoning for why DHCP leases are kept short=E2=80=94to refresh data in = intermediate routers. > On Jun 12, 2026, at 14:11, Ole Tr=C3=B8an <[email protected]> = wrote: >=20 >=20 >> Sounds like dhcp needs a zone refresh timer.=20 >=20 > Is it something DHCPv6 and IPv6 ND doesn=E2=80=99t need it is more = timers and =C2=ABlifetime=C2=BB promises.=20 >=20 > Would be interesting to know if any of those are used operationally as = was intended.=20 >=20 > Ole >>=20 >> On Fri, Jun 12, 2026, at 12:54 PM, Ole Tr=C3=B8an wrote: >>>=20 >>> Tim, >>> =EF=BB=BF >>>> Well, that=E2=80=99s 6man, this is v6ops. If bad operational = procedures are followed, we should highlight those with pointers to the = good. Doesn=E2=80=99t have to name names I suppose. >>>=20 >>> You could. But it=E2=80=99s a world of inconsistency. DHCPv6 PD = lifetimes was recommended to mirror the lifetime of the customer = contract. But then you got into issues with state maintenance on = intermediate routers, and ended up with short lifetimes, so RR has no = visibility into the actual lifetime of the prefix.=20 >>> Then providers raised the issue of rebalancing customers between eg = CMTSs, where maintaining the same prefix has a cost. >>> And I am sure a desire for tiered products.=20 >>> A combination of ipv6 protocols, business practices and operational = reality. >>>=20 >>> Ole >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 12/06/2026, 10:48, "Ole Tr=C3=B8an" <[email protected]> = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Perhaps we need to start draft-v6ops-ipv6-dinosaurs and start to = name and shame such organisations and what they=E2=80=99re doing = wrong=E2=80=A6 polite but objective critique and pointers in the doc to = best practice. >>>>=20 >>>> It may produce a better outcome if we instead focus on fixing the = gaps in ipv6. =20 >>>>=20 >>>> Ole >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 11/06/2026, 21:03, "Phillip Hallam-Baker" = <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Just got off the phone with a very large ISP after a failed attempt = to get an IPv6 address. >>>>=20 >>>> Turns out that I can have IPv6 but only dynamic and only if I am on = dynamic IPv4. I cannot get IPv6 for my service with static IPv4 = addresses. >>>>=20 >>>> Seems to me that we are still a long way away from being able to = shutter IPv4 completely. >>>>=20 >>>> What I have not yet tried but should is trying to use the IPv6 = mapping of my IPv4 addresses. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]> >>>=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_EAE4AD5B-1583-4C2C-85C4-F883536BAB06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html aria-label=3D"message body"><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" = content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body = style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = line-break: after-white-space;">I mean, the original intended solution = for the problem you've stated is the DHCP leasequery and bulk leasequery = functionality. It sounds like you're saying that doesn't work, = though?<div><br></div><div>The point of a lifetime promise is to say "we = aren't going to yank this back from you until T, but please renew at = .001T" to satisfy your reasoning for why DHCP leases are kept short=E2=80=94= to refresh data in intermediate routers.<br = id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div>On Jun 12, 2026, at 14:11, Ole Tr=C3=B8an = <[email protected]> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type"= content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div dir=3D"auto"><div = dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><title></title><div>Sounds like dhcp = needs a zone refresh = timer. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Is it something = DHCPv6 and IPv6 ND doesn=E2=80=99t need it is more timers and = =C2=ABlifetime=C2=BB promises. <div><br></div><div>Would be = interesting to know if any of those are used operationally as was = intended. </div><div><br></div><div>Ole</div><div><div><div><blockquo= te type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>On Fri, Jun 12, = 2026, at 12:54 PM, Ole Tr=C3=B8an wrote:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite" = id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div = dir=3D"ltr">Tim,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF</div><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"direction: ltr; = font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: = 12pt;">Well, that=E2=80=99s 6man, this is v6ops. If bad = operational procedures are followed, we should highlight those with = pointers to the good. Doesn=E2=80=99t have to name names I = suppose.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You could. But = it=E2=80=99s a world of inconsistency. DHCPv6 PD lifetimes was = recommended to mirror the lifetime of the customer contract. But then = you got into issues with state maintenance on intermediate routers, and = ended up with short lifetimes, so RR has no visibility into the actual = lifetime of the prefix. </div><div>Then providers raised the issue = of rebalancing customers between eg CMTSs, where maintaining the same = prefix has a cost.</div><div>And I am sure a desire for tiered = products. </div><div>A combination of ipv6 protocols, business = practices and operational = reality.</div><div><br></div><div>Ole</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><= blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"direction: ltr; = font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: = 12pt;"><br></div><div = id=3D"qt-mail-editor-reference-message-container"><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing">On = 12/06/2026, 10:48, "Ole Tr=C3=B8an" <[email protected]> = wrote:</div><div class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message = qt-skipProofing" style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><blockquote><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, = sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Perhaps we need to start = draft-v6ops-ipv6-dinosaurs and start to name and shame such = organisations and what they=E2=80=99re doing wrong=E2=80=A6 polite but = objective critique and pointers in the doc to best = practice.</div></blockquote><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing">It may = produce a better outcome if we instead focus on fixing the gaps in ipv6. = </div><div class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message = qt-skipProofing" style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message = qt-skipProofing">Ole</div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><blockquote><div = id=3D"qt-mail-editor-reference-message-container"><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing">On = 11/06/2026, 21:03, "Phillip Hallam-Baker" <[email protected]> = wrote:</div><div class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message = qt-skipProofing" style=3D"direction:ltr;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-gmail_default" style=3D"direction:ltr;font-size:9.75pt;">Just = got off the phone with a very large ISP after a failed attempt to get an = IPv6 address.</div><div class=3D"qt-gmail_default" = style=3D"direction:ltr;font-size:9.75pt;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-gmail_default" style=3D"direction:ltr;font-size:9.75pt;">Turns= out that I can have IPv6 but only dynamic and only if I am on dynamic = IPv4. I cannot get IPv6 for my service with static IPv4 = addresses.</div><div class=3D"qt-gmail_default" = style=3D"direction:ltr;font-size:9.75pt;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-gmail_default" style=3D"direction:ltr;font-size:9.75pt;">Seems= to me that we are still a long way away from being able to shutter IPv4 = completely.</div><div class=3D"qt-gmail_default" = style=3D"direction:ltr;font-size:9.75pt;"><br></div><div = class=3D"qt-gmail_default" style=3D"direction:ltr;font-size:9.75pt;">What = I have not yet tried but should is trying to use the IPv6 mapping of my = IPv4 addresses.</div></div><div = class=3D"qt-ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message qt-skipProofing" = style=3D"direction:ltr;"><div>____________________________________________= ___</div><div> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected]</div><div> To = unsubscribe send an email to = [email protected]</div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div= >_______________________________________________</div><div>v6ops mailing = list -- <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></div><div>To = unsubscribe send an email to <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></div><div><b= r></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><= /div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_EAE4AD5B-1583-4C2C-85C4-F883536BAB06--