Re: vCard XML DTD, standard copyrights

Hi, sorry my poor english (you can to correct me)...

> An important thing to note is that it takes time, money, 
> and effort to reach a consensus, publish new updates, and
> get specifications approved.
>
> My understanding is that anyone is free to use the work, 
> but that does not make it a standard.  For a standard to 
> take place, there is quite a bit of behind the scenes work,
> travel to meetings, time and effort, and pretty extensive
> process, that must take place.  Believe me, this is a lot
> of work!
> ...

Yes, copyright exist for this, to turn ideias in a 
productive/economic way...

I have dificulty with the "right terms" in my natural 
language, I think english have the same problem... 
for better terminology reference we can use, for example,
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.pt.html
and we need agree that software rights are like standard 
rights:

- Standards need a "user comunity" for exist as an useful 
  standard.

- and into them have mechanisms (and "mechanism workers" 
  sub-comunity) to "legitimate" new or updates on the 
  standard (we can say "legitimators"). 
  In a democracy by definition "comunity=legitimators", in 
  the other extremity we have legitimators with a big power 
  (or a weak standard).

- Useful standards in general have a "open developer comunity",
  like a openSource, not only one "super developer".
  In general are certain intersection with this comunity and 
  the "legitimators comunity".

- "Norms of obrigation" (law) can not to be private, only
  "voluntary norms",... if a country government turn to do 
  choices, to turn "voluntary" into "obrigation", in that 
  country the standard need turn "public domain" (see health 
  norms).


I think there are many cenarious from this point,

C1) The "traditions of the user comunity" and (evolutive) 
  translatoin of the traditions to "a table of norms" by a 
  open comunity of "translators"... this process define "open
  GLP standard" like GLP software.

C2) Near democratic "user comunity" and "big developer 
  comunity" with good intersection between then: 
  W3C and IETF are this kind.
  They tend to produce "public domain standard" 
  (sensu gnu categories).

C3)  "big comunity of users" and powered "legitimators"
   (smal and distant group of "legitimators").
   ISO are this kind.
   They tend to produce "proprietary standard" 
   (sensu gnu categories).

C4) ....


The "degree of  free" depends strongly from the
situation (C1, C2, .. CN)... and we canot supose
"standard developer" by a single americam copyright
system!   It is a question of ethic, conscience,
history of the process, relevance of the legitimators, etc.



              Peter Krauss

              
              
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darryl Champagne" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: vCard XML DTD


> Hi,
> An important thing to note is that it takes time, money, and effort to
reach
> a consensus, publish new updates, and get specifications approved.
>
> My understanding is that anyone is free to use the work, but that does not
> make it a standard.  For a standard to take place, there is quite a bit of
> behind the scenes work, travel to meetings, time and effort, and pretty
> extensive process, that must take place.  Believe me, this is a lot of
work!
>
> If modifications are made, they should not be called a standard, and they
> should not pretend to be the existing standard (they must be uniquely
> identified as something else - no one else can just arbitrarily publish
> something called vCard 4.0, for example).  But you are free to use the
> existing standards, as long as there aren't any Intellectual property
issues
> (patents, etc.) that suddenly surface.
>
> dgc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 2:18 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: vCard XML DTD
>
>
>
> > - Does anybody know the reason IETF did not make it
> >  a standard?
>
> I want this also, a single definitive standard for
> vCard-XML!  There are only a IETF draft, I think
> the last DTD was
> draft-dawson-vcard-xml-dtd-02.txt
> from  November 15, 1998.
>
> IETF divide responsabilities with the W3C, and, W3C
> is the "master of the XML", and, I think W3C want
> translate vCard (the IETF RFC-2426 standard) into a
> more "dirty and complex xml elements"
> than dawson-vcard-xml-dtd. They want vCard in a RDF
> framework,
> http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf
>
>
> Now, in 2002 days, we must looking for XSD...
> draft-dawson-vcard-xml-dtd-02.txt
> like all DTD definitions can evolute to a XSD, like
> http://www.dlnet.vt.edu/Resources/dlnetSysFiles/vCardv1p0.xsd
> but it is not a standard... the standard are only the
> semantic controled by RFC-2426.
>
>
> > - Is one free to modify this DTD (the way Jabber has
> >  done) to suit one's needs w/o any copyright
> >  violations?
>
> All IETF and W3C specifications are free...
> and the use of the standards are "voluntary"...
> All DTDs and XSDs are like a open source codes
> (see www.opensorce.org)
> ... and XML are eXtensive, you can extend.
>
>
> PS: sorry by my english, I am a portuguese speaker.
>
>
>                                       Peter Krauss
>
>
> = = = =
> Greetings,
>
> According to Jabber website
> (http://www.jabber.org/protocol/vcard-xml/history.html)
> they are about the only one using the DTD propsed by
> the author. My questions are:
>
>
> - Is it true that there would be no more succesor
>   to DTD proposal?
>
> - Is one free to modify this DTD (the way Jabber has
>   done) to suit one's needs w/o any copyright
>   violations?
>
> I recently stumpled upon this site so please
> forgive me if I'm asking questions which have already
> been answered.
>
> Thanks,
> Harsh Daharwal
>
>
>
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