Re: About luv-announce: When is a mailing list "the same" or "different"?

--===============6260771647907480853==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000c6e1c0649fbb14a"

--0000000000000c6e1c0649fbb14a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think it's because their PII has been shared with a 3rd party without
their consent, not the particulars of the software the 3rd party is using
to send their emails.



Paul Esson

On Tue, 3 Feb 2026, 2:17=E2=80=AFpm Les Kitchen via linux-aus, <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello LA folk!
>
> While this is of immediate relevance to LUV (as a subcommittee
> of LA), it could have implications for LA more broadly, so I post.
>
> I'm trying to step back a bit from the current discussions about
> luv-announce, and identify what's really going on.
>
> It seems that we have two divergent and strongly held views:
>
> 1. The mailing list sent out to by the current LUV team is still
>    the same luv-announce list.  It consists of the addresses
>    provided by LUV members to LUV so they can be informed about
>    LUV events (and as the de facto indication of LUV
>    membership).  The only thing that has changed is that mail is
>    now being sent out using computing services donated by
>    Electron Workshop, under the control of LUV.  So it is still
>    in effect luv-announce.
>
> 2. The mailing list is now a different mailing list, and
>    therefore addresses are being harvested (from luv-announce)
>    without consent, which is a bad thing.
>
> I and others hold to View 1; others hold just as strongly to
> View 2.  Maybe there are intermediate positions.
>
> I don't see any immediately easy way of resolving this, but I
> think it is the crucial issue under contention.
>
> I will say though (from my admittedly partisan position) all I
> have heard from holders of View 2 is the assertion that
> it's now a different list, and harvesting is happening.
>
> What I would like to hear from holders of View 2 is a coherent
> case that the list in question is a now a different list, and
> *not* really luv-announce.
>
> Is it because the list is running on different servers?  Is it
> because the list server is under a different domain?  Is it
> because the list server is running different mail software?  Is
> it because the method of subscription is different?  None of
> these seem particularly compelling reasons to regard it as a
> different list.  As far as I'm aware nothing else has really
> changed (aside perhaps from some minor and forgivable glitches
> in set up.)
>
> I acknowledge that "luv-announce" does not appear explicitly in
> the new mailouts, but that could easily be fixed if people
> thought it was a good idea.
>
> As laid out in View 1, as I see it, it's the same list of email
> addresses being used for the same purposes under the control of
> LUV, therefore in effect still luv-announce.
>
> I am curious why people think that it is somehow really a
> different list from luv-announce.  I hope we can reach some
> mutual understanding, and find a way ahead.  My feeling is that
> some minor technical fixups in the current setup could resolve
> most of these concerns.
>
>
> =E2=80=94 Smiles, Les.
> _______________________________________________
> linux-aus mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to
> linux-aus-unsubscribe-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3OBCuuivNXqWP@public.gmane.org
>

--0000000000000c6e1c0649fbb14a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div>I think it&#39;s because their PII has been shared w=
ith a 3rd party without their consent, not the particulars of the software =
the 3rd party is using to send their emails.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><br></div><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_=
signature">Paul Esson</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_=
container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 3 Feb 2026, 2:17=
=E2=80=AFpm Les Kitchen via linux-aus, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linux-aus@list=
s.linux.org.au">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello LA folk!<br>
<br>
While this is of immediate relevance to LUV (as a subcommittee<br>
of LA), it could have implications for LA more broadly, so I post.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m trying to step back a bit from the current discussions about<br>
luv-announce, and identify what&#39;s really going on.<br>
<br>
It seems that we have two divergent and strongly held views:<br>
<br>
1. The mailing list sent out to by the current LUV team is still<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the same luv-announce list.=C2=A0 It consists of the addresses=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provided by LUV members to LUV so they can be informed about<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0LUV events (and as the de facto indication of LUV<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0membership).=C2=A0 The only thing that has changed is that mai=
l is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0now being sent out using computing services donated by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Electron Workshop, under the control of LUV.=C2=A0 So it is st=
ill<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in effect luv-announce.<br>
<br>
2. The mailing list is now a different mailing list, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0therefore addresses are being harvested (from luv-announce)<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0without consent, which is a bad thing.<br>
<br>
I and others hold to View 1; others hold just as strongly to<br>
View 2.=C2=A0 Maybe there are intermediate positions.<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t see any immediately easy way of resolving this, but I<br>
think it is the crucial issue under contention.<br>
<br>
I will say though (from my admittedly partisan position) all I<br>
have heard from holders of View 2 is the assertion that<br>
it&#39;s now a different list, and harvesting is happening.<br>
<br>
What I would like to hear from holders of View 2 is a coherent<br>
case that the list in question is a now a different list, and<br>
*not* really luv-announce.<br>
<br>
Is it because the list is running on different servers?=C2=A0 Is it<br>
because the list server is under a different domain?=C2=A0 Is it<br>
because the list server is running different mail software?=C2=A0 Is<br>
it because the method of subscription is different?=C2=A0 None of<br>
these seem particularly compelling reasons to regard it as a<br>
different list.=C2=A0 As far as I&#39;m aware nothing else has really<br>
changed (aside perhaps from some minor and forgivable glitches<br>
in set up.)<br>
<br>
I acknowledge that &quot;luv-announce&quot; does not appear explicitly in<b=
r>
the new mailouts, but that could easily be fixed if people<br>
thought it was a good idea.<br>
<br>
As laid out in View 1, as I see it, it&#39;s the same list of email<br>
addresses being used for the same purposes under the control of<br>
LUV, therefore in effect still luv-announce.<br>
<br>
I am curious why people think that it is somehow really a<br>
different list from luv-announce.=C2=A0 I hope we can reach some<br>
mutual understanding, and find a way ahead.=C2=A0 My feeling is that<br>
some minor technical fixups in the current setup could resolve<br>
most of these concerns.<br>
<br>
<br>
=E2=80=94 Smiles, Les.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
linux-aus mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"no=
referrer">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus" rel=3D"no=
referrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/l=
istinfo/linux-aus</a><br>
<br>
To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:linux-aus-unsubscribe-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3OBCuuivNXqWP@public.gmane.org" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noreferrer">linux-aus-unsubscribe-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3OBCuuivNXqWP@public.gmane.org</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000000c6e1c0649fbb14a--

--===============6260771647907480853==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
linux-aus mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/linux-aus

To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to
linux-aus-unsubscribe-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3OBCuuivNXqWP@public.gmane.org

--===============6260771647907480853==--