Bug#1084924: The system-log-daemon virtual package

Sean Whitton <[email protected]> Sun, 03 Nov 2024 15:20:43 +0800

Newsgroups	gmane.linux.debian.devel.ctte
Message-ID	<878qu02378.fsf__42759.5431728818$1730618666$gmane$org@melete.silentflame.com>

Hello,

On Mon 28 Oct 2024 at 11:04am +01, Helmut Grohne wrote:

> Thank you for bringing this up. Despite the little confusion in the end
> that Chris remarked, I think this practically covers the four cases.
>
> However, I think there is a fifth case that is becoming more and more
> practically relevant. Both docker and podman now have a logging driver
> called journald.
>
> https://docs.docker.com/engine/logging/drivers/journald/
>
> I'm not yet sure exactly how this works, but the context is "slim"
> containers (i.e. those that do not run systemd as pid 1) and I very much
> expect them to not run a journald from the container environment either.
> Rather the container runtime essentially provides /dev/log and a
> journald socket to the container in some (unspecified?) way.
>
> This kinda is similar to dbconfig where we have dbconfig-no-thanks. We'd
> need another package syslog-no-thanks that would have the same provides
> and conflicts but no systemd dependency now.
>
> Of course just adding such a package would result in apt selecting it
> whenever systemd is difficult to install. In effect, adding such a
> package would render dependencies on system-log-daemon meaningless and
> we could just drop them - which is what has been happening and has
> resulted in this bug.
>
> So now we're running in circles. Effectively, we must decide whether the
> container use case is more important than the non-systemd case or the
> other way round. I do not see a way to make both just work in a sane
> way.

I think I understand what you mean about why a syslog-no-thanks virtual
package would not be helpful, but I don't understand how the journald
driver option interacts with my four options.

How do systemd and these journald drivers interact?  Aren't we in case
#1?

-- 
Sean Whitton

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