Bug#1084924: Draft Ballot Re: Bug#1084924: The system-log-daemon virtual package

Hi,

On 17/12/2024 02:42, Sean Whitton wrote:
> On Sun 15 Dec 2024 at 06:23pm +01, Helmut Grohne wrote:

Thanks for your comments. I had drafted A) to try and avoid being 
prescriptive about the adoption of the systemd-journald-is-syslog 
suggestion, but the result seems to have been too ambiguous. And if 
Helmut wants an option D, then obviously it should be added. I agree 
with Sean that adding a large extra paragraph to option B isn't great.

I've tried to express the above in a revised draft without producing too 
much wall-of-text:

Regards,

Matthew

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In Bug #1084924, the Technical Committee was asked about a mass bug 
filing that aimed to remove all dependencies (except Provides: and 
Conflicts:) upon the system-log-daemon virtual package. Whilst the 
wording of policy in this area is unclear, the Technical Committee notes 
that long-standing practice in this area as reflected by policy was that 
packages could declare appropriate dependencies upon the 
system-log-daemon virtual package. The Technical Committee also 
acknowledges that on systemd systems, journald can serve the purpose of 
system-log-daemon, but that systemd also supports installing a separate 
system-log-daemon.

A) The Technical Committee affirms that it is reasonable for a package 
to declare any suitable dependency upon the system-log-daemon virtual 
package. As journald can serve as system-log-daemon either alone or 
alongside a separate system-log-daemon, this should be expressed in the 
systemd packaging, by shipping a systemd-journald-is-syslog dummy 
package or some other suitable mechanism. The Technical Committee 
suggests that Policy be updated to clarify this, and that maintainers 
who removed such dependencies as a result of the mass bug filing 
consider restoring them.

B) The Technical Committee notes that logging may be provided by a 
container runtime, or by journald (by itself or in concert with a 
separate system-log-daemon), and that it is no longer practical to 
express the availability or otherwise of a logging daemon via package 
dependencies. Therefore, the Technical Committee agrees that packages 
should now only declare Provides: and Conflicts: relationships with the 
system-log-daemon virtual package. The Technical Committee suggests that 
Policy be update to reflect this change.

C) The Technical Committee resolves that this is a de facto attempt to 
change Policy, and that the Policy process should be used to consider 
whether to change Policy relating to system-log-daemon from the status 
quo of packages being able to declare any reasonable dependency upon 
system-log-daemon to the state where only Provides: and Conflicts: may 
be used. Until that process is concluded, dependencies upon the 
system-log-daemon should not be removed (unless they are incorrect on 
the merits of an individual case).

D) The Technical Committee notes that logging daemons can now co-exist 
with each other. Therefore, their should stop conflicting with one 
another, and systemd-sysv should now Provides: system-log-daemon. Given 
this change, packages canand should again issue dependencies on 
system-log-daemon where deemed appropriate by their maintainers. The 
Technical Committee suggests that Policy be updated to reflect this change.

N) None of the above / Further Discussion.

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