Re: Signed and updated ballot option: Call the Free Software community to develop Free AI.

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On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 at 18:09, Marc Haber <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 28, 2026 at 07:00:45AM -0600, Sam Hartman wrote:
> >I second this proposal and prefer it to the one I seconded previously.
> >I support this as an amendment to the previous proposal from Charles.
>
> I don't see that proposal as a solution for the issue we are facing.
> Calling out to the community to develop Free AI is orthogonal to
> allowing or forbidding the use of ALL AI in Debian.
>
> Let's compare that with automobiles.
>
> We have combustion engines.
>
> We have electric cars.
>
> Many people object to having electric cars and would prefer to continue
> using the inferior and outdated combustion engine because that's how we
> always did it. Those people are now calling out to the Industry to
> create "highly efficient" combustion engines, giving that those will be
> up to par or even better than electric cars.
>

As a car guy I feel obliged to correct, this would be like calling to
create sub-20k electric cars with 1000 mile range and no rare eaths or
cobalt used in production that must also be 100% accomplished with green
power and zero CO2 emissions.

It would be great to have and eventually we will have that, but not really
*all* of that in the short term perspective.


> >In my mind, I consider these proposal related  because I think that if
> >there is strong free AI, the objections people have to the use of AI in
> >Debian will be largely addressed.
>
> I am pretty sure that I would not buy the hardware needed to run a local
> AI model on.


Some latest improvements in AI efficiency make it possible to run *quite*
advanced coding-focused AI models on reasonable commodity hardware, like
AMD XTX/XT 7900 video cards, for example. Or on unified memory machines,
like M-series Apple computers. Additionally many datacenter providers allow
people to rent AI-capable hardware by the minute.
https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-gpu/ let's you have one
for as low as 0.37=E2=82=AC per hour.

If Debian *wanted to* and had really good use cases, I would not be too
surprised that sponsors could be found that would provide a limited
off-peak usage allotments to Debian from their existing datacenters. The
ones that are GDPR compliant and operate on 100% green energy.

--=20
Best regards,
    Aigars Mahinovs

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 at 18:09, Marc Haber =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mh%[email protected]">mh+debian-vote@zugschl=
us.de</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Tue, Jul 28, 2026 at 0=
7:00:45AM -0600, Sam Hartman wrote:<br>
&gt;I second this proposal and prefer it to the one I seconded previously.<=
br>
&gt;I support this as an amendment to the previous proposal from Charles.<b=
r>
<br>
I don&#39;t see that proposal as a solution for the issue we are facing. <b=
r>
Calling out to the community to develop Free AI is orthogonal to <br>
allowing or forbidding the use of ALL AI in Debian.<br>
<br>
Let&#39;s compare that with automobiles.<br>
<br>
We have combustion engines.<br>
<br>
We have electric cars.<br>
<br>
Many people object to having electric cars and would prefer to continue <br=
>
using the inferior and outdated combustion engine because that&#39;s how we=
 <br>
always did it. Those people are now calling out to the Industry to <br>
create &quot;highly efficient&quot; combustion engines, giving that those w=
ill be <br>
up to par or even better than electric cars.<br></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div>As a car guy I feel obliged to correct, this would be like calling to=
 create sub-20k electric cars with 1000 mile range and no rare eaths or cob=
alt used in production that must also be 100% accomplished with green power=
 and zero CO2 emissions.</div><div><br></div><div>It would be great to have=
 and eventually we will have that, but not really *all* of that in the shor=
t term perspective.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
&gt;In my mind, I consider these proposal related=C2=A0 because I think tha=
t if<br>
&gt;there is strong free AI, the objections people have to the use of AI in=
<br>
&gt;Debian will be largely addressed.<br>
<br>
I am pretty sure that I would not buy the hardware needed to run a local <b=
r>
AI model on.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Some latest improvements in AI=
 efficiency make it possible to run *quite* advanced coding-focused AI mode=
ls on reasonable commodity hardware, like AMD XTX/XT 7900 video cards, for =
example. Or on unified memory machines, like M-series Apple computers. Addi=
tionally many datacenter providers allow people to rent AI-capable hardware=
 by the minute.=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserve=
r/matrix-gpu/">https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-gpu/</a>=
 let&#39;s you have one for as low as 0.37=E2=82=AC per hour.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>If Debian *wanted to* and had really good use cases, I wo=
uld not be too surprised that sponsors could be found that would provide a =
limited off-peak usage allotments to Debian from their existing datacenters=
. The ones that are GDPR compliant and operate on 100% green energy.</div><=
/div><br><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards,<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 Aigars Mahinovs</div></div></div>

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