Re: Thoughts about LLM usage

On 08.08.26 21:12, Andreas Tille wrote:
> He once told us that real math is done with pen and paper (and eraser)
> but not with computers

I would amend this to state that *learning* Real Math is done with pen 
and paper. Once you're good enough, sure, use your calculator; you're 
not going to learn anything by doing your 1000th long-hand division, or 
looking up yet another logarithm in a book.

Likewise, learning to program is done by editing your code and fixing 
syntax errors, and learning to package Debian is learned by fighting 
Lintian et al.. Once you're good enough, sure, use an LLM; packaging 
your 100th Python package or Rust crate by hand is just a waste of time.

Also, sometimes you don't want to "learn math". You simply want to 
calculate something. So you start a spreadsheet, or whatever other tool 
gets the job done. You do need to know enough to select the right tool, 
of course …

> We know mankind pays a price
> for the ability to move fast.  Regarding flights I evaluate every single
> one - sometimes I do not even fly to DebConf like this year.  I have
> friends telling me I should not fly at all.  Since I know I will not
> save the world when I stop flying completely I simply try to reduce it
> to what I personally consider "responsible".

There's another aspect here. People tend to compensate, sometimes over-. 
Certain ex-friends of mine are strict vegans, because of the climate 
(they say), but still fly half-way round the world for their annual 
vacation … which AFAICT sums up to somewhat less CO₂ than the standard 
meat-eater's diet, but *way* more than my own flexitarianism 
(ovo-lacto-veggie with the occasional seafood or insect burger thrown 
in), which they are holier-than-though about. Which is, ultimately, why 
they're EX-friends.

You can draw up analogies to LLMs yourself. (Does hacking on something 
yourself for a day really save energy, compared to running an LLM for 
five minutes? if power prices are negative anyway because it's summer 
and we have a solar surplus? and so on. NB this is meant as food for 
thought; let's not start a pseudo-environmentalist sub-thread here.)

NB I do agree with Andreas that the ballot has too many options. 
Fortunately, Condorcet is clone-proof. On the other hand, the "bah so 
many choices why do I even bother" effect is still a concern — while 
it's possible that the avid pro- or anti-LLM DD will not be affected 
much, it'd be a shame to lose the middle ground here.

-- 
-- regards
-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs

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