Re: Fedora/RedHat is moving is a similar direction

On 26 August 2015 at 22:24, Trans <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Sergio Tortosa Benedito
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> When I said standalone, I didn't mean that every single application
>> must not need anything, there may be times where they may need other
>> things (in cases like modular applications or servers), is just a
>> simplification of the  bundle concept. How it's done it depends on
>> those behind the project and the capabilites of the bundling system.
>
> I was reading a bit more about what they were planning
> (https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps/Sandbox) and I can't
> help but think this is all getting hell-a-complicated. It basically
> feels as if they are trying to shoe horn Linux into a design it wasn't
> really intended.

It is complicated, yes. Because security is complicated, and
BlackHats/crackers are willing to use complicated methods to
compromise your machines.

> Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier just to give each user their own
> docker instance and isolate things that way?

Er, WTF?

> If a particular app needs
> to be isolated, then give it its own user, and allow users access to
> it via remote (e.g. Xclient, ssh, etc.)

>
>> Btrfs is a *new* file system (just like EXT4, the one tipically used
>> today), which features a lot of promising features (Copy On Write,
>> Compression...) one of them being snapshots, which are pretty much
>> like backups, with the advantage that btrfs only keeps differences not
>> all the files several times. e.g: If I make a snapshot of a folder
>> which have two files, then I can ask btrfs to make a snapshot out of
>> that folder, so if I modify one file and add another one I can access
>> the new folder and thanks to the snapshot the other one as well, the
>> main difference from a standard copy is that btrfs will only keep the
>> differences (the differences made to the file, and the new file) while
>> the a standard copy would just have two copies of everything (ignoring
>> if is duplicated or if it is not), you can even modify the snapshots
>> just like any other folder. If you are curious I suggest you to search
>> info about btrfs.
>
> But what bothers me about it is that it would lock users into Btrfs.
> Is that what bothered you about it too? I mean, I get the advantage of
> using delta's but the need not depend on a single file system.
>
>> (I don't know much about docker so there's a possibility I'm wrong)
>> Based on what I have read they serve the same purpose on a different
>> level, images are barebones OSes, and provide a base upon which the
>> application runs, runtimes are basically the same: a set of libraries
>> provided by someone (GNOME, KDE ...) which include a set of libraries
>> which application can base upon them, everything not included by these
>> runtimes must be incorporated by the application.
>
> Ah, I see. Basically it is a snapshot of usr/ populated as needed for
> a particular app.
>
>>> Oh, what did you think of the way they organized data, config and
>>> cache directories all under a single per-application directory?
>> Truth be told when I read this I jumped some parts, one of them the
>> one telling this, so thank you for making me read that. I think it's a
>> very good idea, though I wonder how will they manage having multiple
>> versions of the same app with incompatible configs or other things, I
>> like the ability to have more than directory (by changing the
>> variables), as this gives (in an automatic and transparent way) a way
>> of having more than one application profile.
>
> I think they expect the app to deal with config version differences. I
> was somewhat concerned that it would be harder to manage, say, a
> central `cache` location. Say if the admin wanted all cache to go to a
> ram disk, for example.
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