Re: Question about -dev thread "Introduction of app-alternatives/coreutils"

On 3/24/26 5:10 AM, Peter Böhm wrote:
> I also followed the discussion on gentoo-dev (and was very surprised that a
> contributor would dare to call @ulm the devil's advocate).
>
> @dale:
> Thank you very much for asking the questions there that I also had. I also
> think it’s great that you switched to this mailing list (I’m just a user
> myself and have only posted there once).

It was confusing.  I was taking into account that the person was not a 
dev and was very likely their first news item.  Wording things like a 
news item is critical.  I've seen devs nitpick them for a while until 
things are clear, concise and detailed.  It's one reason that when I see 
a news item, I stop updates until I read them.  They stop everything 
else until that is dealt with.

After the last reply from the news item maker, I knew I needed several 
more exchanges of info.  I didn't want to clutter up -dev any further.  
Plus, it wouldn't hurt for folks on this list to know about this as 
well.  They may have a different set of questions. Since we have devs 
subscribed and active on this list, they could move that info to -dev if 
needed.

Basically, if this thing was going forward, given the severity of 
possible breakage, this thing needed to be rock solid.

>
> @Ionen:
> I’m thrilled by your discussion on gentoo-dev AND your support here in gentoo-
> user, and thank you very much.
>
> @all:
> My thoughts as an active user on the Gentoo Forum:
>
> a) Many users are aware of the importance of coreutils and would be surprised
> if a world-update suddenly required a re-emerge of them. The cautious ones
> would certainly ask in our support channels (IRC, Forum, ML, Discord)
> beforehand if no news explains it to them.
>
> Am Dienstag, 24. März 2026, 08:13:41 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit schrieb
> Ionen Wolkens:
>   
>> In theory it *shouldn't* cause problems but there can be edge cases
>> depending on how users are using the package, and it was debated
>> whether the news item is needed or not "just in case". The average
>> user would likely be entirely unaffected beside possibly being
>> surprised by the changes and wondering what happened without a news
>> item.
> b) If there can be edge cases, then there will be some; even if there are only
> a few. However, they might rightly be angry at not having been informed
> beforehand.
>
> c) In my opinion, the news doesn’t need to be very extensive - in bullet
> points, I see the following requirements:
> - The next world-update will re-emerge coreutils.
> - This is necessary because there is now a new package, uu-coreutils.
> - No action is required if you do not need or want the new package.
> - However, problems could arise in rare cases; in that case, please read this
> wiki article: LINK
> - If you want to switch to uu-coreutils, you will find instructions in the same
> wiki article.
>
> By the way:
> I find this contributor’s attitude concerning:
>
> "Maybe someone will create a uutils wiki page or a forum post. That doesn’t
> feel too important to me; I just want the feature to exist, and interested
> users will find it",
>
> because: A forum post wouldn’t reach all Gentoo users; a Wiki article
> *without* news might not be found.
>
> --- Peter aka pietinger


I noticed that too.  It was like, 'I want to do a news item but I can't 
be bothered to just announce this to a LOT of people on the forum and 
-user mailing list and then also have to deal with all the feedback'.  
Thing is, if it was done that way, the feedback would likely have helped 
him prepare for what happened on -dev.  He would have been a lot more 
prepared and likely understand that changing the default package was not 
a good path and found a path that does work.  It's not like there are no 
devs on the forums or this mailing list.  It's not like none of them are 
willing to help either.  They there and they would help if they can.

If done that way, I think the end result would have been much better.  
It might have taken a little longer but it could have made it to the 
tree for anyone interested to use.  As it is, it looks like it isn't 
going to happen.  That will likely make it harder to try again as well.  
Certainly need a better plan next time before even starting.

I'm just glad I understand it better now. It just makes it scarier to 
think about given the critical nature of the packages affected.

Dale

:-) :-)