Re: thinkpad X1 7th o 8th generation

Florian Reitmeir <[email protected]> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Am 11.08.2020 um 10:52 schrieb Bjørn Mork:
>>
>> That's completely useless in my experience.  It just means that you
>> might be able to boot Ubuntu.  Which you already knew.  It's very hard
>> to prevent...
>>
>> The Ubuntu certification does not answer any of the important questions:
>> Which hardware parts will work
>>
>>   - out-of-the-box?
>>   - after installing proprietary firmware?
>
> i really believe there is no notebook out there which has no p-firmware.
> BIOS/UEFI firmware for ssd's .. the claim is pretty useless.

I completely agree based on that interpretation.

But I was thinking about firmware which must be downloaded and install
on the system disk, but I see that this wasn't clear. The typical
example is an Intel WiFI card.  It will not work without a proprietary
firmware blob which the driver loads from the system disk. The firmware
by itself isn't any worse that what you'll find in flash on the SSD or
system BIOS, but the installation method forces the user to accept
non-free software sources.  This is an important distinction to some
users.

I believe a proper certification should include this information.

>>   - after installing out-of-tree drivers?
>>   - after sacrificing your first-born?
>>   - never ever
>
> it is not the fault of an OEM, that da driver is not included in the
> linux kernel.

We disagree there.  The OEMs select hardware components. As end users we
can only "vote with our wallets" if the OEMs do the same.

Today there are lots of hardware options which will work with Linux.
The OEMs can and should push back, and they can also independently work
on Linux support.  They are in a much better position than the average
developer, who often don't stand a chance getting any documention or
other development help from the vendor.

We do also have examples like the Lenovo Fibocom L850-GL integration,
where Lenovo blacklisted the module in USB mode and thereby
unnecessarily prevented it from working in Linux.  They knew very well
that the PCIe interface is undocumented and closed with no available
Linux driver, while the USB interface had a standardized CDC MBIM
function which would work out-of-the-box in Linux.

Anyway, I don't think anyone cares who's fault it is that a device
doesn't work.  We want to know whether it works or not.

Predicting the future adds some uncertainty, of course, so it might be
hard to say "never ever".  But I do think there are examples of hardware
we can make that assumption, and be pleasantly surprised if it proves
wrong.


> hard claims. so lenovo should test every possible lte modem out there
> to satisfy your needs?

No, why would I want that?

I want them to drop the code they add to lock me to Lenovo parts, which
are over-priced and hard to use with Linux.  This code is added purely
for commercial reasons, and I am beating back at that.  IMHO it is a
commercial suicide.  "We know our hardware sucks, so have to prevent you
from fixing it".

> you don't even know what they modified in the firmware/hardware and why.
> thermal? regulatory?

The regulatory requirement is a lie that is hard to kill. 

If it were true, then why are there laptop vendors who don't add such
code to their BIOS?

There are no legal or technical requirements forcing vendors to add this
code.  That's just mumbo-jumbo excuse. Laptop vendors are not required
to prevent any hardware modifications.  Even if some of these
modifications might have thermal or regulatory consequences.  That's the
user making the modificatios' problem.

And it's not like the vendors try to prevent you from removing or
replacing a fan or an RF shield.  Which have far more serious
consequences than replacing a modem module with another certified modem
module.

> i know law's like regulatory for WIFI and LTE are not the most loved
> things, but they exist.

Bullshit.  Well, of course regualtory laws exist, but the contents is
actually sane (in the parts of the world where I've seen and/or written
them at least).

Please point me to the law (of any country) which requires a laptop
vendor to add modem whitelists in the system BIOS.



Bjørn
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