Linux users and the Linux community
John Cherry <[email protected]> Wed, 04 Aug 2004 08:01:49 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.linux.kernel.carrier-grade |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Gerrit recently posted to the data center linux group regarding the kernel community and bridging the gap between linux users and linux developers. Gerrit references Andrew's OLS speech, which is also excellent in describing how to bridge the gap between linux users and linux developers. It is a good read. You may not agree with all of it, but it will make you think about the issues. John ------------------------------------------------------------------ I think it is well worth noting that communities are built of individuals and often of multiple sub-communities. The same is true for the linux kernel community. And, while there was a lot of negative commentary at kernel summit and on the mailing list prior to KS, the "good" news is that this means that neither of these communities is trying to ignore the other. That at least provides the basis for ongoing discussion. Many non-kernel communities are simply ignored if they don't cause any pain and they don't make a compelling case for inclusion. One of OSDL's main problems is that they have been effective in inflicting pain on part of the community while getting pleasure from the vendor marketing/sales and OSDL affiliate aspects. Specifically, CGL has been a point of repeated discussion. Red Hat, and, to some extent, SuSE have been thumped repeatedly with the CGL specs by their customers. Both companies are relatively small compared to most of the vendors and customers involved in CGL and have never seen the level of customer cooperation that a standard or specification generally achieves. The customers are happy with CGL because they can point to it and say "see, all those things you were arguing with us about that we couldn't state clearly enough for you to understand - here they are". And, RH/SuSE then have to walk through an formalized list and point out how many could be done differently. Well, if that was lever that was needed to help bring the community to the discussion table, so be it. It isn't pleasant, but most of the organizations involved now are companies with customers. Making those customer happy is what most of the vendors want to do, because happy customers spend money. ;) The problem, of course, is now some of the community members come from RH/SuSE, etc. And, they share their experiences with the rest of the community. So, we start with a negative bias from one of the key players, which we need to make every effort to address in future projects, e.g. DCL and DTL. And some of those steps have been started, e.g. opening up the SIG lists and encouraging appropriate community members to be active. The second significant problem that OSDL has with the community as I see it is that OSDL has made the claim that it is trying to be the center of gravity for Linux. Many of the core community enjoy the lack of centralization and control of Linux and see OSDL as threat to a Linux "of the hacker, by the hacker, for the hacker." The problem is that nobody wants RH, or SuSE or Novell or IBM or HP or... to own Linux, but in the real world of customers, customers want to have *someone* to talk to. The kernel community has not really understood this aspect, and as developers, they generally have no desire to understand it. Of course, this is often because the Linux community as a whole has very little understanding of the people that really use Linux today. There are always individuals with specific experiences inside the community that know of a customer or a user of Linux. Most tend to extrapolate from their own experiences that all users look like "This" (pointing to the few that they know). The reality here is that there is a culture clash between the vendors experiences here about what customers look like and what the development community perceives linux users to be. The general answer to this problem is to spend more time bridging the gap between linux users and linux developers. I think (I hope!) that having Goldman Sachs and, to a lesser extent, Amazon at kernel summit helped provide a little bit of the vendor view of what a customer looks like. And, I think Andrew Morton's keynote provided a clear message to the vendors (and even the vendor's customers, who mostly weren't listening, unfortunately) about how vendors should work with the community. I'm hoping that involving customers, ISVs, and developers (kernel and otherwise) in the appropriate SIGs will help bridge some of this difference in cultural background. I think some of the other suggestions made here, e.g. educating customers better on how to work with the community, is another place where OSDL can add value. And, opening up the "capability" documents for earlier and earlier review may also help over time so that people can help develop the context over time and have their input more directly into the process. The vendors also need to understand that "that's the way we've always done it" is a very bad response to the linux community, and often doesn't serve the customer very well either. But at the same time, when a major customer says "I depend on Java", the Linux community response can't be "Well, tough, Java stinks". Some things are business or market realities that aren't going to change over night. I'm going to strongly recommend that if you've read this far through my drivel, you go read this and internalize this speech from Andrew Morton: http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/patches/stuff/ols-2004.txt It is a roadmap for at least the first few steps of a better partnership between vendors and the kernel community. And, it may contain some very sage advice for how OSDL groups work with the community as well. gerrit _______________________________________________ cgl_discussion mailing list [email protected] http://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/cgl_discussion