Re: [OM Cooker] Are we still doing this moderation? Really?
Raphaël Jadot <[email protected]> Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:21:54 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.linux.mandrake.cooker.devel,gmane.linux.openmandriva.cooker.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAO8a6kwUfn-kjO3yW-Wh+R9dwbMrQvVNMhb0s4QXiGO-FUG+bg@mail.gmail.com> |
--f46d044517f7a96f8e04e2e96fd0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2013/8/1 Per =C3=98yvind Karlsen <[email protected]> > 2013/8/1 Robert Xu <[email protected]> > >> >> On Aug 1, 2013 1:33 PM, "Rapha=C3=ABl Jadot" <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > If by association you mean Council, it is just a group of members >> having to represent all members, manage its treasury, hardware, legal st= uff >> (including naming) and preparing the overall structure. >> >> Yeah, I meant Council. >> >> > >> > There were problems only with one person that was excluded from counci= l >> from not respecting what was voted in it, (was a problem of behaviour), = and >> I hope this is past now, if by "Association" you mean council, it has >> nothing to do with the moderation as cooker is autonomous. >> > What wasn't respected? > > If cooker is autonomous, how come that this decission that was made > outside of cooker influenced cooker without it's involvement? > Well, the name has been called cooker as historical reason, I was in favour of having another name for avoiding any confusion, but most people were in favour of having the name cooker. > > > >> > >> > The association is part of groups that are intended to be autonomous. >> The development team (which is called historically cooker) is part of it= , >> > How come that you without even participating in the project can decide fo= r > the project's developers that they're the development team of the > association, where and when was this decided? > Me with even participating in the project? So you consider this is a technocracy where only technical people are "really" participating or deserve to be considered as? I guess it's mainly the problem of the catch-all "project" word. You have a project, but have a lot of difficulties to admit that people can have a different project than yours. As said before, we can feed both projects, and even merge, you don't need to destroy the other projects. Anyway, I can understand this vision, but as from the very start of the history of openmandriva there is a big misunderstanding (ie you thought the association was created to support your project, while it was a simply new project in which you were invited to participate. At the end you considered it as a hijack and claimed it everywhere. > Considering and apparently has difficulties to self-organize. It's not >> such big deal. >> > There's been quite a few complaints about the current state of the > project, it's lack of leadership and progress, I'd say that is a big deal= . > I will not feed this troll :) > > >> There is no "crash" nor "screw" no reason to continue a drama here. >> > The fact that there's no other contributors supporting the decission made > by the council & Jochen to moderate me seems to suggest otherwise, same > goes for my access being revoked on ABF. > > If there's supposedly no crash here, then why hasn't this been reverted? > I can't answer this, I'm not managing this, this is a dec. Did you improve your behaviour? Did you ask politely? Did they not answer? > > >> > >> > There is however to think at the next step to resolve these problems, >> and stop listening at legends and feeding them. >> >> I think we're having difficulties reaching this next step of resolving >> the problems. >> > The resolution is obvious and the one voiced by most in here; stop > blocking me from participating in the project or at least provide an actu= al > rationale for doing so that is accepted by those contributing to the > project. I'm not wanting to block you contributing, I even was long time in favour (and even found mostly how) hire you in the association before... well, past is past, I think you'll never apologize of some thing you did because you don't realize why it was bad. For me, it's not a problem if you come back as a hero, far the contrary if it helps OpenMandriva. One proposal of next step, by the way, is to have a common view of what is the "project" (by common I mean all aspects of openmandriva, users, contributors may they be developers or not, sponsors, members, partners etc) and agree on it. Then it will stop to be a catch-all holy word and we will have something to follow more important than egos, even huge :) Basically simple question, what do you consider as the mission of OpenMandriva, what is its place in the world, is it there to meet some needs of the world, or bring something new to the creativity, evolution. > > -- > Regards, > Per =C3=98yvind > --f46d044517f7a96f8e04e2e96fd0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail= _quote">2013/8/1 Per =C3=98yvind Karlsen <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"m= ailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&= gt;</span><br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-= left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">2013/8/1 Robert Xu <span = dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">robxu= [email protected]</a>></span><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204= );padding-left:1ex"> <div><p dir=3D"ltr"><br> On Aug 1, 2013 1:33 PM, "Rapha=C3=ABl Jadot" <<a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > If by association you mean Council, it is just a group of members havi= ng to represent all members, manage its treasury, hardware, legal stuff (in= cluding naming) and preparing the overall structure.</p> </div><p dir=3D"ltr">Yeah, I meant Council.</p><div> <p dir=3D"ltr">><br> > There were problems only with one person that was excluded from counci= l from not respecting what was voted in it, (was a problem of behaviour), a= nd I hope this is past now, if by "Association" you mean council,= it has nothing to do with the moderation as cooker is autonomous.<br> </p></div></blockquote></div><div>What wasn't respected?</div><div><br>= </div><div>If cooker is autonomous, how come that this decission that was m= ade outside of cooker influenced cooker without it's involvement?</div> </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, the name has been called cooke= r as historical reason, I was in favour of having another name for avoiding= any confusion, but most people were in favour of having the name cooker.<b= r> <br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m= argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left= :1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im"><div> <br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= "><div><p dir=3D"ltr"> ><br> > The association is part of groups that are intended to be autonomous. = The development team (which is called historically cooker) is part of it,</= p></div></blockquote></div><div>How come that you without even participatin= g in the project can decide for the project's developers that they'= re the development team of the association, where and when was this decided= ? =C2=A0</div> </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Me with even participating in the pr= oject? So you consider this is a technocracy where only technical people ar= e "really" participating or deserve to be considered as? I guess = it's mainly the problem of the catch-all "project" word. You = have a project, but have a lot of difficulties to admit that people can hav= e a different project than yours. As said before, we can feed both projects= , and even merge, you don't need to destroy the other projects. Anyway,= I can understand this vision, but as from the very start of the history of= openmandriva there is a big misunderstanding (ie you thought the associati= on was created to support your project, while it was a simply new project i= n which you were invited to participate. At the end you considered it as a = hijack and claimed it everywhere.<br> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b= order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail= _quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-= left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p dir=3D"ltr"> Cons= idering=C2=A0and apparently has difficulties to self-organize. It's not= such big deal.</p> </div></blockquote><div>There's been quite a few complaints about the c= urrent state of the project, it's lack of leadership and progress, I= 9;d say that is a big deal.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div> I will not feed this troll :) <br><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cl= ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid= rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0<= /div><div class=3D"im"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-= left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div><p dir=3D"ltr"> There is no "crash" nor "screw" no= reason to continue a drama here.</p></div></blockquote></div><div>The fact= that there's no other contributors supporting the decission made by th= e council & Jochen to moderate me seems to suggest otherwise, same goes= for my access being revoked on ABF.</div> <div><br></div><div>If there's supposedly no crash here, then why hasn&= #39;t this been reverted?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I can= 't answer this, I'm not managing this, this is a dec.=C2=A0Did you = improve your behaviour? Did you ask politely? Did they not answer?<br> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b= order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail= _quote"><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= :0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"= > <div> <p dir=3D"ltr"> ><br> ><br> > There is however to think at the next step to resolve these problems, = and stop listening at legends and feeding them.</p> </div><p dir=3D"ltr">I think we're having difficulties reaching this ne= xt step of resolving the problems.</p> </blockquote></div></div>The resolution is obvious and the one voiced by mo= st in here; stop blocking me from participating in the project or at least = provide an actual rationale for doing so that is accepted by those contribu= ting to the project.</blockquote> <div><br></div><div>I'm not wanting to block you contributing, I even w= as long time in favour (and even found mostly how) hire you in the associat= ion before... well, past is past, I think you'll never apologize of som= e thing you did because you don't realize why it was bad. For me, it= 9;s not a problem if you come back as a hero, far the contrary if it helps = OpenMandriva.<br> <br></div><div>One proposal of next step, by the way, is to have a common v= iew of what is the "project" (by common I mean all aspects of ope= nmandriva, users, contributors may they be developers or not, sponsors, mem= bers, partners etc) and agree on it. Then it will stop to be a catch-all ho= ly word and we will have something to follow more important than egos, even= huge :)<br> <br></div><div>Basically simple question, what do you consider as the missi= on of OpenMandriva, what is its place in the world, is it there to meet som= e needs of the world, or bring something new to the creativity, evolution.<= br> </div><div><br>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m= argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left= :1ex"><div> <br></div><div>--</div><div>Regards,</div><div>Per =C3=98yvind</div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --f46d044517f7a96f8e04e2e96fd0--