Re: installing bsd with speech

I have just discovered that the updates to the kernel in archlinux makes 
speakup not talk with the curses console output.
I have not had time to figure out why, but a work around is to use ssh 
into the box you are running qemu on and that solves the problem.
kp



On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Kelly Prescott wrote:

> Ok, there is not a link, here is what I do.
> Make sure you are logged into your system at a text console with speakup 
> running.
> ***DO*** not do this in a X session or it will not work.
>
> I create a image file.
> qemu-img create -o size=16G -f raw openbsd.img
> Change to taste.
> Here is the qemu install command I use for the current release.
>
> qemu-system-x86_64  -enable-kvm -soundhw ac97 -machine type=pc,accel=kvm 
> -curses -m 1024 -cdrom install60.iso -boot order=d openbsd.img
> Here is the command I use once the install is finished for normal booting.
> qemu-system-x86_64  -enable-kvm -soundhw ac97 -machine type=pc,accel=kvm
> -curses -m 1024 openbsd.img
>
> Remember, these commands are probably put on more than one line by the mailer 
> software.
> This works on anything with a text-based install, freebsd, netbsd, openbsd, 
> pfsense etc...
>
> Have fun.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Eric Oyen wrote:
>
>>  ok, can you send me the link with how to do that? I would certainly
>>  appreciate it a lot.
>>
>>  -eric
>>  from the central office of the Technomage Guild, Access technology
>>  Division 6.
>>
>>  On Mar 16, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:
>> 
>> >  I use BSD all the time.
>> >  I use Qemu to set them up.
>> >  This gives me the text consoles and I can install them and speakup does 
>> >  the work.
>> >  I do NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD all that way.
>> >  once they are installed, I just ssh to them.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Eric Oyen wrote:
>> > 
>> > >  that was one of the things I tried. I never could get it to work. Of 
>> > >  course, someone may have properly ported it since I last tried some 4 
>> > >  years ago.
>> > > 
>> > >  the only thing severely lacking in OpenBSD is braille/speech support 
>> > >  in the installation. I mean, seriously, its a text based console 
>> > >  environment so it should be rather easy to do, but getting Theo to see 
>> > >  that is like pulling Teeth!
>> > > 
>> > >  oh well, I will get a little sighted assistance here in the next few 
>> > >  days and get an image setup under vmware. then I can get the post 
>> > >  config done and actually be able to log into it. at that point, it 
>> > >  should be relatively easy to add the ports tree and compile BrlTTY.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >  meanwhile, back to the actual issue at hand…. Does anyone here 
>> > >  remember openSuse? I spent more than a year trying to get them to make 
>> > >  their product accessible. Their version of Linux had some nice 
>> > >  features, but it wouldn't work with any screen readers and there were 
>> > >  no packages for such either. I kept asking on their forums and 
>> > >  eventually a developer chimed in and stated they had no interest in 
>> > >  making their product accessible (claiming too much work, etc. etc.). 
>> > >  That was 7 years ago and they are still not accessible. So, it isn't 
>> > >  just fedora that has an issue with us.
>> > > 
>> > >  so, my question is this: why is Vinux now merging with SONAR (a Fedora 
>> > >  based project) when Fedora is known to have little interest in our 
>> > >  needs? I don't know about the rest of you, but it seems to me that we 
>> > >  are being treated like the red headed step child here.
>> > > 
>> > >  -eric
>> > >  from the central office of the Technomage Guild, access technology 
>> > >  division 6.
>> > > 
>> > >  On Mar 16, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > >  Hi!
>> > > >  I think you can build brltty for bsd.
>> > > >  But i am not sure.
>> > > >  And that requiers a braille display.
>> > > >  /A
>> > > > >  16 mars 2017 kl. 21:57 skrev Eric Oyen <[email protected]>:
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  and now we see the crux of the issue. its called a lack of proper 
>> > > > >  attention to the problem.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  this is the biggest holdup to a lot of us blind folks, lack of 
>> > > > >  coherent information. It's most telling in the local activities 
>> > > > >  and events arena, but it shows up in technology as well. SOunds 
>> > > > >  like it's time to spread the news on FB, swarm, snap chat, 
>> > > > >  twitter, and any other social media outlet we can find. I might 
>> > > > >  even point this article at Theo De Raadt of OpenBSD and see if he 
>> > > > >  will actually consider it.. It would be nice to have a little 
>> > > > >  support from some of the big names behind alternative Operating 
>> > > > >  systems (like the BSD ecology or the Linux ecology). In fact, I 
>> > > > >  will cc this missive to them. I doubt it will get any sort of 
>> > > > >  useful response, but there is no harm in trying.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  btw, I was involved in trying to get a screen reader working in 
>> > > > >  OpenBSD. It was speakeasy and it failed rather ignominiously. 
>> > > > >  Since I am not a coder, I didn't exactly have the tools required 
>> > > > >  to properly port it. what I ended up with only partially worked. 
>> > > > >  Getting any help from the OpenBSD development corps was a lost 
>> > > > >  cause right from the outset. Here it is over 4 years later and I 
>> > > > >  have one since given up on ever getting some help from them. 
>> > > > >  Perhaps it's time that a bunch of us bug Theo directly. if he gets 
>> > > > >  enough emails on the subject, he might reconsider his position. 
>> > > > >  His developer email is Theo de Raadt <[email protected]>
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  anyway, it also sounds like we need to get everyone else in the 
>> > > > >  community of the blind on board with this. that means hitting up 
>> > > > >  the various lighthouse organizations, the NFB, the ACB, and the 
>> > > > >  AFB as well as the world blind union. SInce I am also on a number 
>> > > > >  of technology lists dedicated to blind users and technology 
>> > > > >  (including almost all of the mac lists for the blind), it 
>> > > > >  shouldn't be that hard to get this information out. perhaps 
>> > > > >  partnering up with a few of the bigger blindness blogs wouldn't 
>> > > > >  hurt either.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  -eric
>> > > > >  from the central office of the Technomage Guild, access technology 
>> > > > >  division 6.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  On Mar 16, 2017, at 8:39 AM, John G Heim wrote:
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > >  It's funny you should say it's long overdue for there to be a 
>> > > > > >  blindness related non-profit. I was part of a group who created 
>> > > > > >  exactly that several years ago. After much discussion, we called 
>> > > > > >  ourselves The International Association Of Visually Impaired 
>> > > > > >  Technologists or IAVIT. See www.iavit.org.
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  After creating the non-profit, the real problem has been lack of 
>> > > > > >  interest in using it's resources. We are incorporated as a 501c3 
>> > > > > >  in the USA so we can legally accept donations. We have a lawyer, 
>> > > > > >  a bank account, a paypal account at the non-profit rates, 
>> > > > > >  donated server space, etc. The entire infrastructure is there. 
>> > > > > >  We're just waiting for people to say, "Hey, I could use this or 
>> > > > > >  that."
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  On 03/16/2017 07:53 AM, Tony Baechler wrote:
>> > > > > > >  Be warned that my comments are most likely unpopular and 
>> > > > > > >  controversial.
>> > > > > > >  See below. I'm not really interested in discussing this 
>> > > > > > >  further, so
>> > > > > > >  don't expect a response.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >  On 3/15/2017 3:30 AM, Kyle wrote:
>> > > > > > > >  Sonar merges with the Vinux Project.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >  Well, this is indeed unfortunate. First, it was never said 
>> > > > > > >  what "common
>> > > > > > >  goals" were discussed. Granted I don't closely follow either 
>> > > > > > >  project,
>> > > > > > >  but I'm disappointed and surprised to see Vinux heading 
>> > > > > > >  towards a Fedora
>> > > > > > >  base. Red Hat has stated many, even numerous times, both in 
>> > > > > > >  their
>> > > > > > >  inaction and in published docs on their sites, that they have 
>> > > > > > >  no or very
>> > > > > > >  little interest in core accessibility. Yes, I realize this 
>> > > > > > >  list is
>> > > > > > >  hosted by Red Hat, but honestly, anyone can host a mailing 
>> > > > > > >  list
>> > > > > > >  nowadays, so to me, that doesn't count. Look at groups.io, 
>> > > > > > >  Yahoo Groups,
>> > > > > > >  etc. Unlike Debian, Ubuntu and Slackware, to the best of my 
>> > > > > > >  knowledge,
>> > > > > > >  Fedora has never made their installer accessible out of the 
>> > > > > > >  box. I
>> > > > > > >  understand that now their installer talks with Orca, but I 
>> > > > > > >  think that's
>> > > > > > >  more by accident than anything. Fedora does claim to have 
>> > > > > > >  accessibility
>> > > > > > >  with the Gnome desktop though, but I don't think one can 
>> > > > > > >  easily use
>> > > > > > >  Speakup and a text console to do the install. I could very 
>> > > > > > >  well be wrong
>> > > > > > >  on this as I quit following Fedora years ago for the above 
>> > > > > > >  reasons.
>> > > > > > >  There were projects like Speakup Modified (now dead I think), 
>> > > > > > >  but they
>> > > > > > >  were community projects with no support from Fedora 
>> > > > > > >  developers.
>> > > > > > >  Presumably, since Sonar is being folded in, they will use a 
>> > > > > > >  distro other
>> > > > > > >  than Fedora. In the long term, I think Fedora would be a very 
>> > > > > > >  bad idea
>> > > > > > >  for many reasons which I won't go into here.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >  I think it's a great idea for there to be an a11y, or even
>> > > > > > >  blindness-specific nonprofit to be formed. I would even say 
>> > > > > > >  it's very
>> > > > > > >  long overdue. If Apache, Mozilla, the Linux kernel and many 
>> > > > > > >  others can
>> > > > > > >  do it, there is no reason why the blind community can't. I 
>> > > > > > >  would even
>> > > > > > >  suggest moving this and other Linux lists to that 
>> > > > > > >  organization. Yes, I
>> > > > > > >  realize that nonprofit and not-for-profit are different. I 
>> > > > > > >  would push to
>> > > > > > >  make it a U.S based nonprofit. Start a Kickstarter or other 
>> > > > > > >  fundraising
>> > > > > > >  compaign. I would donate to it. As much as Facebook doesn't 
>> > > > > > >  support
>> > > > > > >  accessibility and generally is against the open source spirit, 
>> > > > > > >  a page on
>> > > > > > >  there, Twitter, Tumblr, etc would be a very good idea. There 
>> > > > > > >  needs to be
>> > > > > > >  a strong publicity team to write articles for both the 
>> > > > > > >  blindness
>> > > > > > >  magazines (ACB Braille Forum, etc) and the mainstream Linux 
>> > > > > > >  magazines
>> > > > > > >  like LWN. Amazingly, there has been almost no mention of 
>> > > > > > >  Speakup in the
>> > > > > > >  mainstream Linux community at all. I think a fair number of 
>> > > > > > >  companies
>> > > > > > >  and developers don't take us seriously because they don't know 
>> > > > > > >  we exist
>> > > > > > >  and that blind people not only can and do use computers but in 
>> > > > > > >  fact can
>> > > > > > >  and do use Linux on a regular basis. I just got an email from 
>> > > > > > >  someone
>> > > > > > >  asking if I'm blind, how do I read and write? There is still a 
>> > > > > > >  huge
>> > > > > > >  amount of ignorance out there. I realize this isn't strictly a 
>> > > > > > >  Linux
>> > > > > > >  accessibility issue, but what leads to the next great 
>> > > > > > >  breakthrough might
>> > > > > > >  be started by a developer seeing that blind people want an 
>> > > > > > >  accessible
>> > > > > > >  desktop like everyone else. With an actual organization, KDE 
>> > > > > > >  could be
>> > > > > > >  pushed for accessibility and developers from the organization 
>> > > > > > >  could
>> > > > > > >  help. In other words, not only does it need to be a nonprofit 
>> > > > > > >  a11y
>> > > > > > >  organization who works with other developers and develops 
>> > > > > > >  software, but
>> > > > > > >  it also needs to be an advocacy and lobbyist group to demand 
>> > > > > > >  big and
>> > > > > > >  small companies make their software accessible.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >  However, I see a huge flaw in the merger. I think we're going 
>> > > > > > >  down the
>> > > > > > >  same path as Windows screen readers. I'm not saying that Vinux 
>> > > > > > >  would go
>> > > > > > >  commercial. What I'm saying is I fear they would end up like a 
>> > > > > > >  big
>> > > > > > >  company who shall remain nameless. There are other screen 
>> > > > > > >  readers out
>> > > > > > >  there such as NVDA, but very few people take them seriously 
>> > > > > > >  because this
>> > > > > > >  big company has almost a monopoly. Granted, Linux is still far 
>> > > > > > >  from
>> > > > > > >  having a huge share of the market, but if it should reach the 
>> > > > > > >  90% or
>> > > > > > >  even 50% point some day, it would be very unfortunate for 
>> > > > > > >  rehab agencies
>> > > > > > >  and employers to force people to use Vinux because that's the 
>> > > > > > >  only
>> > > > > > >  specialized distro for the blind. What would be much better is 
>> > > > > > >  to work
>> > > > > > >  with the mainstream distros like Debian and Ubuntu to fix 
>> > > > > > >  accessibility
>> > > > > > >  problems. Ubuntu is the most popular distro on the desktop. 
>> > > > > > >  While
>> > > > > > >  accessibility is good, it has problems. When 16.04 came out, 
>> > > > > > >  Orca was
>> > > > > > >  broken. I believe there are only a small number (no more than 
>> > > > > > >  a few)
>> > > > > > >  people on the accessibility team. Debian could also 
>> > > > > > >  desperately use
>> > > > > > >  help. It would look much better for the blind community if an
>> > > > > > >  organization donated their time and talents to auditing the 
>> > > > > > >  packages in
>> > > > > > >  Debian and either fixing those with accessibility bugs which 
>> > > > > > >  could
>> > > > > > >  easily be fixed or working with the upstream developers, 
>> > > > > > >  providing
>> > > > > > >  patches and consulting with them to make their packages more 
>> > > > > > >  accessible.
>> > > > > > >  To me, it seems like a huge waste of time to put a ton of 
>> > > > > > >  energy into
>> > > > > > >  beating Fedora, Ubuntu or whatever distro into submission and 
>> > > > > > >  slapping a
>> > > > > > >  "Vinux" or "Sonar" label on it when that same upstream distro 
>> > > > > > >  with very
>> > > > > > >  few tweaks could be made that way out of the box. If you 
>> > > > > > >  absolutely must
>> > > > > > >  modify packages, desktop settings, etc from the upstream 
>> > > > > > >  defaults, such
>> > > > > > >  as for low vision users, create a Vinux repository instead or 
>> > > > > > >  work with
>> > > > > > >  the Ubuntu community to create an official Ubuntu flavor 
>> > > > > > >  called Ubuntu
>> > > > > > >  VI or something. There is already a Ubuntu MATE flavor, so why 
>> > > > > > >  not work
>> > > > > > >  with them directly? While we're at it, what about Orca? I see 
>> > > > > > >  only one
>> > > > > > >  main paid developer working on it. I'm sure she could use some 
>> > > > > > >  help, not
>> > > > > > >  to mention thorough testing. Getting back to the Windows 
>> > > > > > >  screen readers,
>> > > > > > >  I fear that blind people will not be given the choice of what 
>> > > > > > >  distro
>> > > > > > >  they want and will be locked out of mainstream use because 
>> > > > > > >  there is
>> > > > > > >  primarily one Vinux to rule them all.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >  In conclusion, I will continue not recommending any 
>> > > > > > >  specialized distro
>> > > > > > >  to my clients and other people. I think they are almost always 
>> > > > > > >  a
>> > > > > > >  mistake. As we have seen yet again, it does lead to 
>> > > > > > >  fragmentation and
>> > > > > > >  generally bad luck for all concerned. I couldn't get any of 
>> > > > > > >  them (Sonar,
>> > > > > > >  Vinux or Talking Arch) to work reliably on my 2009 machine 
>> > > > > > >  which runs XP
>> > > > > > >  great and has a very old, well-supported standard sound card. 
>> > > > > > >  I had to
>> > > > > > >  invent my own live / rescue CD because there wasn't anything 
>> > > > > > >  reliable.
>> > > > > > >  Hopefully the official Debian rescue CD will have reliable 
>> > > > > > >  speech soon.
>> > > > > > >  Something like a Vinux rescue CD would be a great idea, but 
>> > > > > > >  not a live
>> > > > > > >  system with an unreliable graphical desktop, horrible speech 
>> > > > > > >  (ESpeak)
>> > > > > > >  and an unreliable infrastructure which crashes for no obvious 
>> > > > > > >  reason
>> > > > > > >  while the mainstream Debian and Ubuntu distros don't. All of 
>> > > > > > >  that said,
>> > > > > > >  I wish both teams the best of luck and I guess we'll see what 
>> > > > > > >  happens. I
>> > > > > > >  would only add that if you haven't taken the plunge and 
>> > > > > > >  actually tried
>> > > > > > >  Linux, give Ubuntu MATE a try. It's fast, works well and can 
>> > > > > > >  be
>> > > > > > >  installed independently by the blind in about an hour. It 
>> > > > > > >  does,
>> > > > > > >  unfortunately, still use ESpeak. Getting a commercial company 
>> > > > > > >  to release
>> > > > > > >  a decent synth as open source would be a great thing for a 
>> > > > > > >  nonprofit to
>> > > > > > >  do, even if it required buying the rights.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >  _______________________________________________
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>> > > > > > 
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>> > > > > 
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