Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)

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Glen,
I have no reason to  follow up on anything.  The role of a commission, and=
=20
the duty of a rehab system employee are  two different things.
that you state you work for a  nfb philosophy rehab office speaks volumes=
=20
for your integrity.
clearly your staff simply tell this commission what they want to hear, or=
=20
they exist in name only.
nothing changes your description of your state.



On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:

> I knew you wouldn't follow up on it, they would just laugh at you.
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <[email protected]>; "John G. Heim" <[email protected]=
u>;
> <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal" <[email protected]>;
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>
>
> Glen,
> why would I bother?
> your own words as a seasoned employee speak for themselves.
> Nebraska is an NFB philosophy state.
> Were you  here in Ontario, that  could be a human rights violation, since
> here the code establishes that claiming everyone sharing a label
> accommodates the same is a violation of the individual's human rights.
> No wonder the state of new York supported my professional move, if rehab
> systems like yours are Nfb puppets.
> The commission is not the individual rehab staffer, who  states he makes
> decisions using a NFB dictionary.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>
>> Karen,
>> Start out at the web site for
>> Nebraska Commission for the Blind.
>> There are links to communicate with all the board members, who are
>> appointed
>> by the governor.
>> Glenn
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <[email protected]>; "John G. Heim"
>> <[email protected]>;
>> <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal" <[email protected]>;
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>
>>
>> Do what?
>> where I am it is actually a violation of vendor contract to tell someone
>> they must use a certain tool.
>> give them the chance in an office to try several things yes.
>> Force jaws down their throat like rehab does no.
>> I said I wished I knew someone in Nebraska media not that I did...althou=
gh
>> perhaps.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>
>>> Please do.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <[email protected]>; "John G. Heim"
>>> <[email protected]>;
>>> <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal" <[email protected]>;
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 3:46 PM
>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>> Glen,
>>> you are missing the point.
>>> A commission board, at least if constructed  with integrity serves as a
>>> watchdog for your organization's activities.
>>> Making sure that you act, objectively, and above influence with
>>> government
>>> funding.
>>> That role differs from a public servant, like yourself.
>>> In fact that the commission  has members from both organizations is
>>> exactly why you should not be a member.
>>> if, as you said, the state has an Nfb philosophy, I wonder  just how
>>> above
>>> influence  that commission actually is, lip service attendance does not
>>> translate  to the statement you freely made.
>>> Honestly, i wish I knew someone with Nebraska public radio.  there is a
>>> investigative, data journalism piece right here, exploring how objectiv=
e
>>> your  office is in fact.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Karen,
>>>> In Nebraska, the commission board attends both consumer groups' state
>>>> conventions.
>>>> So there is total transparency within the consumer groups.
>>>> The agency sends clients to both conventions for educational purposes.
>>>> Some can go to either national convention on the state.
>>>> Glenn
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <[email protected]>; "John G. Heim"
>>>> <[email protected]>;
>>>> <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal" <[email protected]>;
>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 2:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> wrong.
>>>> Your first duty is to those clients  You serve.  as illustrated here t=
he
>>>> Nfb
>>>> used their ability to reach insiders to influence policy to the
>>>> detriment
>>>> of the broader community...same can clearly be said for freedom
>>>> scientific.
>>>> That you stated clearly that your  rehab system runs on an nfb
>>>> philosophy
>>>> illustrates my point perfectly.
>>>> There are countless legal terms for  such conflicts of interest, I dar=
e
>>>> say if you were serving any other clientele your government watchdog
>>>> would
>>>> put  a stop  to the practice.
>>>> allows the organization to have undue almost antitrust influence on
>>>> people's lives.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think so, we are people first, and being a government employe=
e
>>>>> should not preclude personal rights.
>>>>> Besides, I attended the conventions for CEU credits, but I never join=
ed
>>>>> with
>>>>> dues.
>>>>> Glenn
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
>>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <[email protected]>; "John G. Heim"
>>>>> <[email protected]>;
>>>>> <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal" <[email protected]>;
>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:36 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> speaking personally?
>>>>> No government employee should be a member of the NfB.   ethical
>>>>> conflict
>>>>> of interest personified.
>>>>>
>>>>> Karen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I had been to a state NFBN convention that year and did the PA=
C
>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>> Then when the NFB did that, I called up the state treasurer for the
>>>>>> NFBN
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> cancelled my PAC plan.
>>>>>> I told them that they don't care if I can read my money, then they
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> need any from me.
>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> To: "Butch Bussen" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Cc: "John G. Heim" <[email protected]>; "K0LNY_Glenn"
>>>>>> <[email protected]>;
>>>>>> <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal" <[email protected]>;
>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:18 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My personal favorite is the rejection of money that could be
>>>>>> identified
>>>>>> by touch.  never mind that for honestly thousands of years the
>>>>>> practice
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> been common so those with limited education could still engage in
>>>>>> commerce.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, Butch Bussen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I remember that.  And what about their oposition to descriptiv=
e
>>>>>>> video,
>>>>>>> even filed a law sute to get the law thrown out, which it was at th=
at
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> Butch
>>>>>>> WA0VJR
>>>>>>> Node 3148
>>>>>>> Wallace, ks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Holy cow! Are you aware that the NFB once asked Microsoft to *NOT=
*
>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>  Narrator to the point where it would compete with Jaws? If you
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>  NFB is incapable of forcing choices on people, you are very sadly
>>>>>>>>  mistaken.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  On 8/16/22 09:36, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>   This sort of thing would never happen in Nebraska, or any state
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>   agency staff is of the NFB philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>   Say what you want about the NFB, no organization is without its
>>>>>>>>>   problems,
>>>>>>>>>   but it is the core philosophy that formed the NFB that knows th=
at
>>>>>>>>>   society
>>>>>>>>>   has low expectations of the Blind, and this is why the NFB
>>>>>>>>> believes
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>   skills and high expectations.
>>>>>>>>>   And with that, comes giving respect to the Blind, like the
>>>>>>>>> respect
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>   choice.
>>>>>>>>>   Yeah I know about the information of recent about NFB abuse, bu=
t
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>   is
>>>>>>>>>   organizational issues, unrelated to the philosophy.  In fact, t=
he
>>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>>>>   that
>>>>>>>>>   it has come up demonstrates that the NFB is no different than a=
ny
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>   organization in interpersonal staff issues.
>>>>>>>>>   And choice does not mean training center choices.
>>>>>>>>>   Choice isn't always an option, just like if you took a vocation=
al
>>>>>>>>>   course
>>>>>>>>>   in
>>>>>>>>>   college, there are things you have to take, so to me, the lack =
of
>>>>>>>>>   choice
>>>>>>>>>   in
>>>>>>>>>   this regard is different than computer software, where all the
>>>>>>>>> choices
>>>>>>>>>   will
>>>>>>>>>   reach the same end result.
>>>>>>>>>   In states where the NFB philosophy is embraced, if a client sai=
d
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>   to
>>>>>>>>>   use a Mac, or I want Window Eyes, then that is what they would
>>>>>>>>> get,
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>   questions asked.
>>>>>>>>>   They would not have to fight to get it.
>>>>>>>>>   I simply cannot imagine a counselor saying that someone has to
>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>   software that the counselor wants them to have.
>>>>>>>>>   When I hear that stuff, I almost cannot believe it, but I know
>>>>>>>>> Butch
>>>>>>>>>   well
>>>>>>>>>   enough to know he wouldn't make that up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Glenn
>>>>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>   From: "Butch Bussen" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>   To: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>   Cc: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>;
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>;
>>>>>>>>>   "Milan
>>>>>>>>>   Zamazal" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:18 AM
>>>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   You are right.  In Nevada, freedom pushed jaws to the rehab
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>   took them out for steak diners and so forth.  I fought like hel=
l
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>   them to buy window-eyes.
>>>>>>>>>   73
>>>>>>>>>   Butch
>>>>>>>>>   WA0VJR
>>>>>>>>>   Node 3148
>>>>>>>>>   Wallace, ks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, 14 Aug 2022, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   And where do these employers learn about jaws?
>>>>>>>>>>   In fact, provide if you do not mind an example of how  this
>>>>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>>>>>   exactly.
>>>>>>>>>>   after all, unless I am incorrect, these employers are not
>>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>>   Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>   users, meaning someone they trust continues to sell them on an
>>>>>>>>>>   expensive
>>>>>>>>>>   program instead of a largely free one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Karen,
>>>>>>>>>>>     Most employers don't want NVDA, and will only allow Jaws.
>>>>>>>>>>>     In Nebraska, if an employer said put on whatever works, the
>>>>>>>>>>>     counselors
>>>>>>>>>>>     will
>>>>>>>>>>>     use NVDA, because of the cost of Jaws.
>>>>>>>>>>>     If some of the clients in a call center already use Jaws, b=
ut
>>>>>>>>>>>     don't know
>>>>>>>>>>>     NVDA, the counselor will use Jaws, because the other client=
s
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>     need
>>>>>>>>>>>   to
>>>>>>>>>>>     learn one of the two.
>>>>>>>>>>>     So it's all choice, but in the workplace, it depends on wha=
t
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>   employer
>>>>>>>>>>>     will allow.
>>>>>>>>>>>     Also, sometimes scripts need to be made, and there are more
>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>   scripters
>>>>>>>>>>>     available than there are NVDA add-on writers.
>>>>>>>>>>>     So this perception that Jaws is forced by rehab, from my 31
>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>     in the
>>>>>>>>>>>     business I can say is rubbish.
>>>>>>>>>>>     Now, if a counselor did not know how to use NVDA, and eithe=
r
>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>     be
>>>>>>>>>>>     chosen,
>>>>>>>>>>>     the rehab counselor is able to select the one that the
>>>>>>>>>>> counselor
>>>>>>>>>>>     feels
>>>>>>>>>>>   is
>>>>>>>>>>>     best for the student and for the counselor's teaching.
>>>>>>>>>>>     When it comes to part B moneys, which is used for
>>>>>>>>>>> non-vocational
>>>>>>>>>>>     purchases,
>>>>>>>>>>>     where a lot of Jaws purchases come from, it is in the
>>>>>>>>>>> agency's
>>>>>>>>>>>     best
>>>>>>>>>>>     interest
>>>>>>>>>>>     to spend as little as possible, because that doesn't come
>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>     like VR
>>>>>>>>>>>     expenditures do.
>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>     To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>     <[email protected]>;
>>>>>>>>>>>     <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     The challenge with that example is that, as one often gets
>>>>>>>>>>>   reminded,
>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>     rehab systems track record for facilitating  employment for
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>   clients
>>>>>>>>>>>     is quite poor.
>>>>>>>>>>>     With a high percentage of unemployment among our clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>     Making,
>>>>>>>>>>>     speaking personally, your buying Jaws for personal use not
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>     reflecting how the system would respond to an alternative
>>>>>>>>>>>     request.
>>>>>>>>>>>     Now if someone from organized rehab said, okay freedom
>>>>>>>>>>>     scientific, we
>>>>>>>>>>>   are
>>>>>>>>>>>     creating an employment program where our clients will train
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>     Linux,
>>>>>>>>>>>     needing a solid screen reader solution for the system.  We
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>     give you
>>>>>>>>>>>     an
>>>>>>>>>>>     exclusive development contract for s millions to create the
>>>>>>>>>>> tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>     Fs would likely say where do we sign?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     True enough, but largely, rehab people typically use Windo=
ws
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>     work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>     and
>>>>>>>>>>>>     probably at home, but they need to cater to the needs of t=
he
>>>>>>>>>>>>     client.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     If a client used Linux, I doubt that any rehab counselor
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>   advocate
>>>>>>>>>>>>     that
>>>>>>>>>>>>     the client switch to Windows, unless that was needed for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>     specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>   job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     In Nebraska, we purchased Jaws much more for personal use
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>     we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>     for
>>>>>>>>>>>>     work related situations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     So if FS made a JFL, and people were using Linux, rehab
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>     indeed
>>>>>>>>>>>>     purchase a JFL product.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>     <[email protected]>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>     <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     there was an interesting discussion a month or so back on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>     blinux
>>>>>>>>>>>>     list
>>>>>>>>>>>>     about how long it took completing tasks in the gui as
>>>>>>>>>>>> apposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>     to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>     command line,  the comments were quite informative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Still, fs has never marketed largely to the end user.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>     they
>>>>>>>>>>>>     market
>>>>>>>>>>>>     to the American rehab community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     how much market research has  the rehab community done to
>>>>>>>>>>>>     support the
>>>>>>>>>>>>     need
>>>>>>>>>>>>     for choices?
>>>>>>>>>>>>     How many rehab counselors support  training in Linux?
>>>>>>>>>>>>     one comment made by the subject of this thread about poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>     quality
>>>>>>>>>>>>   speech
>>>>>>>>>>>>     is a fine one...out of the box Linux has few speech choice=
s.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>     brings their needs to the table there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     if you want to get fs to care about Linux, you  need to
>>>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>     there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>     money for  them there, from their main source of income.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Well since Orca seems to work on so many distros, I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   know why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   FS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     not be able to do the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     If Jaws users could switch into Linux, it would be a real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     changer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I think with lots more Blind Linux users, we would start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     seeing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     accessibility in Linux not being a second thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Karen Lewellen" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <[email protected]>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <[email protected]>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Well technically freedom scientific does not exist any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     longer, being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     by another company.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Still, I can respect why they, or nvda have not created
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     That is because as I understand it, Linux is  quite like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     clay. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     mold a distribution into almost anything. there are vario=
us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     personifications of the system, all sorts of ways and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for creativity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     however adaptive tools are often extensions of physical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     characteristics,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     hands, eyes, ears, brains, combinations of these.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     To build solid assistive tools one must have a solid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     foundation as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     were.  that is part of why there have needed to be so few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     efforts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     inclusion, they  created  with, and then created in-house
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     adaptive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for various  populations that were built into the system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Although Microsoft did not bother until much later, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     least,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     consistency of windows is what makes it possible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     gw  micro or nvda to create something that can in theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Floor for the furniture is somewhat solid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I would like to see Freedom Scientific make a Jaws For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     JFL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I'd certainly pay the yearly rental fee for it, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     would bring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     users into Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     FS could, with its resources, possibly make it more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> robust
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Orca.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Milan Zamazal" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     To: <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 12:08 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     "KL" =3D=3D Karen Lewellen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   KL>  What bothers me most are his lack of actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   qualifications,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    absolute dismissal of what he has not experienced..as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    defines Linux usage for everyone.  That attitude is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    dangerous,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    because he is educating those outside of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    experiences, who will believe his ignorance is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   KL>  to be expert, it is his job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Hi Karen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I know Lukas personally and I admire his skills and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   qualifications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     also know first hand that he is open to constructive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     feedback and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     believe he=C3=A2?Td be happy to be corrected about possi=
ble
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     inaccuracies in the interview.  It may be also a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     opportunity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     find out what=C3=A2?Ts possibly missing in making anybod=
y
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     informed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     As for =C3=A2?oabsolute dismissal of what he has not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   experienced=C3=A2?=C2=9D,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     reasonable free software alternatives to a less or more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     with Orca and a software synthesizer can you see for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     user
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     who needs to use a fully working web browser, to read an=
d
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     text
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     documents, to be compatible with other computer users,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     etc.?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     And let=C3=A2?Ts be realistic.  We celebrate every singl=
e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   hired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     improve accessibility.  This tells something about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     state of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     matters.  We cannot expect that a single person will fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     kinds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     of accessibility problems in all the environments.  Luka=
s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     works at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     job focusing on certain areas currently seen there as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     urgent ones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     appreciate this opportunity.  Anybody else seeing a need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     other areas is welcome to contribute to whatever sees
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fit,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Milan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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