Re: Fedora Workstation Working Group Meeting 2025-06-10

Here is Gemini's summary of the meeting. I have edited it to fix the 
usual mistakes.

Jun 10, 2025

Meeting Jun 10, 2025 at 08:58 CDT

Meeting records Transcript

Summary

Canonical plans to disable X11, aligning with Fedora Rawhide's current 
non-X11 Gnome session, prompting discussions about GNOME Shell 
extension development and nested compositor alternatives like Weston, 
KWin, and KDE's built-in features, as reported by Neal Gompa (Conan 
Kudo). Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) and Tomáš Popela shared their positive 
impressions of Flock, including talks on multimedia improvements with 
Christian, derivative experiences with Antheas and Noel, Anaconda user 
experience, and container technologies with Dan Walsh and Sebastian, 
while noting lower community attendance. The participants also 
discussed Open H.264 status updates, the Forgejo migration, outdated 
website screenshots, and proposed karma policy updates for package 
promotion, with Nieves Montero Fernandez and Adam leading the 
conversation on implementation, and considered future meeting 
invitations for Adrian to discuss gnome-session, systemd, and GDM.

Details

X11 Disablement

Matthias noted that Canonical plans to disable X11 in their next 
release, aligning with Fedora efforts. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) reported 
that Fedora Rawhide has already disabled X11, with the current 
compositors and tests running against a non-X11 capable gnome-session. 
A key user concern is the lack of a clear path for GNOME Shell 
extension development without nested mutter, but Neal Gompa (Conan 
Kudo) mentioned a potential GNOME Shell SDK coming in the current cycle.

Nested Compositor Alternatives

Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) discussed the ongoing development of a GNOME 
Shell SDK to address the lack of nested mutter. While hopeful, they 
expressed mild concern about its initial completeness. Neal Gompa 
(Conan Kudo) mentioned that users needing nested functionality could 
use Weston or KWin, which offer native nesting. They also highlighted 
that KDE has advanced built-in nesting capabilities and workflows for 
development.

Flock Report - General Impressions and Multimedia

Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) found Flock to be generally good, with 
significant interest in desktop-related topics. A major takeaway was 
discussions with Christian and others about improving Fedora's 
multimedia story, with the understanding that previous constraints are 
being relaxed. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) expects to implement some 
initial changes in the coming weeks, with more substantial improvements 
over the next year.

Flock Report - Derivative Experiences and Community

Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) had many discussions about making it easier to 
build Fedora-based derivatives, specifically with Antheas and Noel from 
the Basi team. There were also positive conversations with Anaconda 
developers about improving user experience. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) 
noted a lower attendance of community members, likely due to the 
proximity of Red Hat Summit and DevConf.CZ.

Flock Report - Presentations and Workshops

Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) did not present at Flock but led workshops on 
multimedia, the initial setup wizard and Anaconda, and building images 
with Kiwi. Tomáš Popela also attended Flock and briefly connected 
with Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo). Tomáš Popela observed that community 
involvement at Flock was similar to recent events in the Czech Republic.

Flock Report - Bazzite Team and Container Technologies

Tomáš Popela was impressed by the Bazzite team's progress in creating 
a Fedora-based system, noting their rapid development and adoption of 
newer technologies like bootc. He attended a BOF on containers 
organized by Dan Walsh, where Antheas from Bazzite shared their 
experiences. Tomáš Popela mentioned Sebastian's plans to explore OCI 
baked containers and composefs with Flatpak, which resonated with 
attendees.

Flock Report - Upstreaming Efforts and Fedora Project Leader

Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) mentioned that Antheas from Bazzite is seeking 
help from kernel community members to upstream more of their code, 
which is currently a major concern. Tomáš Popela noted a blog post 
about the change in the Fedora Project Leader and the related 
ceremonies. Tomáš Popela met Jef Spaleta and invited them to a future 
meeting, though their current schedule is very busy.

Open H.264 Status

Matthias inquired about the status of Open H.264 and its relation to 
multimedia improvements. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) has a new contact at 
Cisco in Germany and is trying to advance progress. Christian and Neal 
Gompa (Conan Kudo) are also working on improving things for this codec 
specifically. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) hopes for better out-of-the-box 
support in the coming months but will consider disabling the repo if no 
progress is made this week, avoiding version or epoch changes. Michael 
Catanzaro is fine with waiting another week as Benzheng reported a fix 
to their Jenkins instance.

Forgejo Migration

Matthias asked about the status of Forgejo, the replacement for Pagure. 
Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) reported that the infrastructure team is 
actively working on a migrator for Pagure to Forgejo that aims to 
maintain users, comments, and links, minimizing the need for direct 
action from their team. Tomáš Popela added that the Forgejo CEO gave 
a presentation about Forgejo at Flock.

Outdated Website Screenshots

Matthias raised issue 482 regarding outdated screenshots on the website 
and asked for volunteers to help update them. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) 
offered to guide someone through the process of taking and submitting 
new screenshots and can do it themselves in a few weeks when back home. 
Tomáš Popela noted that the reporter of the issue is willing to 
contribute new screenshots. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) will reach out to 
assist them, having done this for KDE previously. Allan Day suggested 
QA for new screenshots, and Matthias proposed having the contributor 
attach them to the issue. Tomáš Popela noted that the user has 
already added screenshots to the issue. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) will 
review them and help with the submission process.

Policy Updates and Karma

Nieves Montero Fernandez discussed the policy updates with Adam, noting 
the default karma is +3 for automatic promotion to stable. Adam 
recommended reviewing packages individually, especially critical path 
ones, and potentially increasing their minimum karma to 5 or 10. Nieves 
Montero Fernandez clarified that packages with negative computed karma 
will never be pushed automatically. Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) suggested 
turning off auto time and auto karma for full manual control. Allan Day 
inquired about Adam's view on minimum testing time, but Nieves Montero 
Fernandez stated the discussion mainly focused on karma. Nieves Montero 
Fernandez believes increasing karma for complex or critical path 
packages while keeping the default for trivial ones is a good approach.

Implementing Karma Changes

Matthias questioned how to implement the karma changes concretely, 
especially for packages on duty, and whether a list of critical path 
packages exists. Tomáš Popela mentioned a spreadsheet created by Ian 
that could be used for this purpose. Matthias suggested adding a column 
to mark critical path packages and recommend karma levels. Nieves 
Montero Fernandez agreed to take the lead on adding this column.

Meeting Secretary and Future Invitations

Michael Catanzaro pointed out that Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) was 
scheduled as secretary but was not reminded to take notes, and noted 
that someone took notes in the pad anyway. Matthias was aware and 
suggested that the automated transcript might suffice for now. Matthias 
mentioned plans to invite Adrian to a future meeting to discuss Gnome 
session, systemd, and GDM, noting Adrian's current unavailability due 
to new hire orientation and an open source event.

Suggested next steps

Matthias will ask about plans for publicizing the Gnome Shell SDK.

Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) will guide the contributor through the process 
of submitting updated website screenshots.

Matthias will ask the contributor to attach new website screenshots to 
issue 482.

Neal Gompa (Conan Kudo) will follow up with Cisco on the OpenH264 issue 
this week and Matthias will add it to next week's agenda.


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