Fedora Workstation Working Group Meeting 2025-08-12 - Gemini Summary

Meeting Aug 12, 2025 at 08:59 CDT

Summary

Michael Catanzaro identified that Fedora Flatpaks cause confusion and 
are seen as harmful due to user preference for Flathub. He proposed a 
client-side filter to hide Fedora Flatpaks, or alternatively, 
reordering priorities in GNOME Software so that Fedora Flatpaks appear 
last, a solution favored by Jens-Ulrik Petersen. Tomáš Popela and 
Michael Catanzaro agreed that any changes should include user 
configurability in GNOME Software. Chris Murphy and Tomáš Popela 
raised concerns about Flathub quality and the need for data to inform 
decisions, while Tomáš Popela also highlighted Flathub's limited 
architecture support.

Details

Fedora Flatpaks Issues

Michael Catanzaro identified that Fedora users generally dislike Fedora 
Flatpaks due to confusion with Flathub versions and their precedence in 
GNOME Software, leading to accidental installations. He noted that 
Fedora Flatpaks are seen as actively harmful to Fedora, causing 
problems that cannot be fixed by more developer effort, as users prefer 
Flathub for its upstream nature. Michael Catanzaro also highlighted 
that Flathub applications are less secure than those built by Fedora, 
making him reluctant to promote Flathub wholesale, especially since 
Flathub is unwilling to make necessary changes to improve security.

Proposed Solution: Client-Side Filter

Michael Catanzaro explained a change proposal for FESCo, suggesting a 
client-side filter to hide most Fedora Flatpaks from GNOME Software and 
the Flatpak command line, with exceptions for whitelisted core 
applications like Firefox. He clarified that this filtering mechanism 
is an existing Flatpak feature already used for Flathub. The proposal 
is driven by the consensus among atomic desktop developers that Fedora 
Flatpaks are "worse than nothing," and while Fedora generally avoids 
shutting down projects, exposing it to users is not mandatory.

Alternative Solution: Priority Reordering

Michael Catanzaro presented an alternative to filtering Fedora 
Flatpaks: reordering priorities in GNOME Software so that Fedora 
Flatpaks appear last. He suggested that if the filtering proposal is 
not accepted, removing the source entirely or lowering its priority 
would prevent accidental installations. Jens-Ulrik Petersen favored 
changing priorities over a whitelist, as he believes it offers a 
superior user experience and is a reasonable first step.

Atomic Desktops and Future of Fedora

Michael Catanzaro emphasized that the Fedora atomic desktops do not 
want Fedora Flatpaks, and this stance is important given Fedora's 2028 
goal for atomic editions to become the default. He noted that RPMs will 
largely disappear from default editions in three years, making Flathub 
the only viable software source alongside Fedora Flatpaks. He suggested 
that FESCo needs to understand the direction of Fedora editions and the 
implications of this transition.

User Configurability in GNOME Software

Tomáš Popela and Michael Catanzaro agreed that if Fedora Flatpaks are 
deprioritized, GNOME Software should include a feature allowing users 
to revert the priority changes. Michael Catanzaro expressed full 
support for this, making user configurability a prerequisite for any 
changes. Jens-Ulrik Petersen also concurred that this would be the best 
outcome.

Concerns about Flathub Quality and Data

Chris Murphy raised concerns about the quality deficiencies of Flathub 
applications. He expressed a need for concrete data, rather than 
relying on social media sentiment, to make decisions about Flatpak 
strategies. Tomáš Popela supported the need for more data, noting 
that the opinions heard are from a vocal minority, not necessarily 
representative of all users. Michael Catanzaro acknowledged the 
difficulty in obtaining representative data, suggesting that surveys 
might still be biased towards social media users.

Architecture Support and Repackaging

Tomáš Popela highlighted a significant problem with Flathub's support 
for secondary architectures like ARM64, stating that many applications 
built from pre-packaged binary sources do not support it. Michael 
Catanzaro confirmed that this is a concern he has, noting that Flathub 
often uses pre-packaged binaries from sources like Debian instead of 
building from source, which limits architecture support and affects 
open source apps.

Strategic Approach to Flatpaks

Matthias Clasen suggested that while there might not be immediate 
benefits, steering users towards Flathub is a strategic decision 
because Fedora Flatpaks have little hope of future improvement, whereas 
Flathub does. He acknowledged that there could be downsides in security 
and quality, but emphasized the long-term vision. Michael Catanzaro 
added that user preference for Flathub Flatpaks over Fedora Flatpaks is 
an important consideration that is unlikely to change.

Public Relations and Future Discussions

Michael Catanzaro suggested that even without full consensus on a 
technical solution, the group agrees that Fedora Flatpaks present a 
public relations problem for Fedora. He plans to inform FESCo that the 
working group agrees on the need for user configurability in GNOME 
Software and that there is a reluctance to adopt the whitelist 
approach. He also proposed discussing next week whether to switch RPMs 
back to highest priority as they appear to be the least controversial 
software source.

Meeting Logistics and Updates

Matthias Clasen announced he would be traveling next Tuesday and unable 
to attend the meeting, with Michael Catanzaro agreeing to chair in his 
absence and prepare an agenda. Matthias Clasen also provided an update 
on GNOME 49 beta builds, mentioning decent progress and expected 
readiness soon. He additionally mentioned a potential discussion for a 
future meeting regarding the default background image and leveraging 
new color management features in GNOME 49.

Suggested next steps

 * Michael Catanzaro will handle next week's meeting and send an agenda.




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