Re: Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted

Jim Kinney <[email protected]> Thu, 2 Jul 2015 07:03:19 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.linux.redhat.k12osn
Message-ID <CAEo=5PxZgRSJTa_Hd2Kf-XRofBimD5eWWeH05iwZxOrJCOmPZQ@mail.gmail.com>
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In order to develop K12Linux further, it will require developers. Warren
brought it from Centos 5 to Centos 6. He did this working alone. To migrate
it to Centos 7 will require new developers to step forward and take over. I
don't think Warren is interested. It was hoped that RedHat would pick up
K12linux. That doesn't seem to be an option any more as their focus is on
VM technology.

I can't take on this myself for many reasons. The main one is I see the
spice/VM process as a better successor. My day job has me swamped so my
time is zero.
On Jul 2, 2015 3:20 AM, "Radek Bursztynowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>         p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }
>
>
> Jim,
>
>
> Thanks you for your
> clear explanation. It means, that there are two separated cases. The
> first one is the K12Linux's usefulness and the second one closing
> down the project.  In spite of K12Linux's usefulness this project is
> shutting down. Is it appropriate understanding?
>
>
> If yes, I regret. I
> don't evaluate why, but I regret.
>
>
> Are there any
> chances to reanimate K12Linux project?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Radek
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Kinney" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wed, 7/1/2015 9:10pm
> To: "Support list for open source software in schools." <[email protected]
> >
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted
>
> On Wed, 2015-07-01 at 17:24 +0200, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Van: "Warren Togami Jr." <[email protected]>
> Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." <
> [email protected]>
> Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42
> Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted
>
> Disagree all you want.  If no developer is willing to do the work, then it
> cannot happen.
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and
> I am about to ugrade a second, larger
> site as well.
>
> I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I
> don't agree with this:
>
> Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because
> video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops,
> and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is
> considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks
> and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to
> more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is
> not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution.
>
> I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is
> not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on
> K12Linux.
> What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on
> Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu.
>
> I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly
> robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7.
>
> greetings, Johan
>
> Warren,
>
> Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work".
> Now it says K12Linux is legacy.
>
> And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux.
>
> What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not
> legacy, It works.
>
> Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further
> development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program
> becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get
> superseded by newer projects.
> K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7
> ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will
> be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well.
> I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar
> result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs
> to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin
> client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM
> running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push
> screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X
> over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech
> support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus
> only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to
> provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM
> console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client
> (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware
> and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works.
> 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2
> layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops.
> I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly
> and with sound synched to the video.
> As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory
> ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can
> share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus
> can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best
> of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application
> crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared
> memory.
>
> Greetings, Johan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  K12OSN mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
>  For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> K12OSN mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
> _______________________________________________
> K12OSN mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>--
> James P. Kinney III
>
> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
> gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
> own tail. It won't fatten the dog.
> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
>
> http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> K12OSN mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>;
>
> _______________________________________________
> K12OSN mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">In order to develop K12Linux further, it will require develo=
pers. Warren brought it from Centos 5 to Centos 6. He did this working alon=
e. To migrate it to Centos 7 will require new developers to step forward an=
d take over. I don&#39;t think Warren is interested. It was hoped that RedH=
at would pick up K12linux. That doesn&#39;t seem to be an option any more a=
s their focus is on VM technology.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I can&#39;t take on this myself for many reasons. The main o=
ne is I see the spice/VM process as a better successor. My day job has me s=
wamped so my time is zero. </p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 2, 2015 3:20 AM, &quot;Radek Bursztynowsk=
i&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">radek@bursztynows=
ki.waw.pl</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }=
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jim,<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks you for your<br>
clear explanation. It means, that there are two separated cases. The<br>
first one is the K12Linux&#39;s usefulness and the second one closing<br>
down the project.=C2=A0 In spite of K12Linux&#39;s usefulness this project =
is<br>
shutting down. Is it appropriate understanding?<br>
<br>
<br>
If yes, I regret. I<br>
don&#39;t evaluate why, but I regret.<br>
<br>
<br>
Are there any<br>
chances to reanimate K12Linux project?<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Radek<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: &quot;Jim Kinney&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">ji=
[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wed, 7/1/2015 9:10pm<br>
To: &quot;Support list for open source software in schools.&quot; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2015-07-01 at 17:24 +0200, <a href=3D"mailto:johan.vermeulen7@telen=
et.be">[email protected]</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
Van: &quot;Warren Togami Jr.&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"=
>[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
Aan: &quot;Support list for open source software in schools.&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42<br>
Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted<br>
<br>
Disagree all you want.=C2=A0 If no developer is willing to do the work, the=
n it cannot happen.<br>
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:johan.vermeulen7@tel=
enet.be">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and =
I am about to ugrade a second, larger<br>
site as well.<br>
<br>
I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I do=
n&#39;t agree with this:<br>
<br>
Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because v=
ideo (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, and=
 scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is co=
nsidered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks a=
nd is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to mor=
e modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is not =
considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution.<br>
<br>
I think a lot of organsisations have employees who &#39;s first priority is=
 not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on K1=
2Linux.<br>
What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on Centos7/Rh=
el7, they are moving to Ubuntu.<br>
<br>
I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it&#39;s incredibly =
robust. And I think it&#39;s the same on Centos7.<br>
<br>
greetings, Johan<br>
<br>
Warren,<br>
<br>
Then it should say on the site &quot; no developer wants to do the work&quo=
t;.<br>
Now it says K12Linux is legacy.<br>
<br>
And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux.<br>
<br>
What I&#39;m saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it&#39;s not=
 legacy, It works.<br>
<br>
Legacy doesn&#39;t mean it doesn&#39;t work. It simply means no further dev=
elopment will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program become=
s legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get supersed=
ed by newer projects.<br>
K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 r=
eady will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will =
be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well.<br>
I think it&#39;s time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar r=
esult. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs =
to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin c=
lient should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM ru=
nning on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push s=
creen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X ove=
r SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech support =
to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus only requir=
e updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to provide a single =
sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM console (which t=
hen auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client (spice) can be =
32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware and it support=
s USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works.<br>
3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 layers=
 of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. I sta=
rted a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly and =
with sound synched to the video.<br>
As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports &quot;memory=
 ballooning&quot;, different VMs that need to use the same block of memory =
can share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and th=
us can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Be=
st of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an applicatio=
n crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared me=
mory.<br>
<br>
Greetings, Johan<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
=C2=A0K12OSN mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</a><br>
=C2=A0For more info see &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.k12os.org" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.k12os.org</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
K12OSN mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</a><br>
For more info see &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.k12os.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.k12os.org</a>&gt;<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
K12OSN mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</a><br>
For more info see &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.k12os.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.k12os.org</a>&gt;--<br>
James P. Kinney III<br>
<br>
Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you<br>
gain at one end you lose at the other. It&#39;s like feeding a dog on his<b=
r>
own tail. It won&#39;t fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
K12OSN mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</a><br>
For more info see &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.k12os.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.k12os.org</a>&gt;;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
K12OSN mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</a><br>
For more info see &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.k12os.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.k12os.org</a>&gt;<br>
</blockquote></div>

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_______________________________________________
K12OSN mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
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