Re: Does our xim process need an update?

 > One relevant question about the system setup: should we fix to an IM
 > once when started/used, or keep it dynamically evaluated at every
 > start?

I supposed that chameleon-tongue will show a dialogue or notification
if it detects a new IM.

If users have selected a specific IM before the change and ignore the 
notification, it does not change their setting.


 > Do you mean that it will help for users to choose the primary IMF at
 > installation?  I don't get exactly in which situation you supposed.

No. It is just a naive feature that allows users to install packages
of IMs from an IM-setting dialog provided by chameleon-tongue.

On 2015年07月15日 01:31, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:01:48 +0200,
> Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> - Migration from old /etc/X11/xim setup;
>>>    we need to keep the setup as much as possible.  How can it be done
>>>    gracefully?
>>
>> Honestly, no good idea.
>> But I know many users use automatic selection of IMF or have only one
>> IMF on their system.
>
> Right, it's my guess, too.  That said, we'd need at most to evaluate
> /etc/sysconfig/language:INPUT_METHOD value, but forget about the setup
> in ~/.profile.  Who managed to set up ~/.profile should be able to
> follow such an easy technical change :)
>
>> The new script have a chance to be more interactive, which means
>> it can show its dialog or message to set up IMs after some system changes.
>> So they should be able to switch to the new launcher and set up IMs smoothly.
>
> One relevant question about the system setup: should we fix to an IM
> once when started/used, or keep it dynamically evaluated at every
> start?
>
> This question is something like the current window manager selection.
> In the former case, we record it at the login.  Then, even if a new IM
> package is installed later, the same previous IM will be used, no
> matter how the default priority is set.  The latter case is like the
> current implementation, we take whatever the system default regardless
> of the previous usage.
>
>
>>> - Let's add a description file to each profile directory, e.g. create
>>>    a file /usr/lib/input-method/profile.d/XXX/description, so that a
>>>    program that selects IM can show the content of each entry more
>>>    nicely.
>>
>> Sounds good!
>>
>>
>>> - Is the start of daemon solely done by the desktop file?
>>>    What if a bare DE that doesn't start desktop files?
>>
>> It should have a black list of DEs that do not support desktop files.
>> If the current session is one of them, the script in /etc/X11/xinput.rc.d/
>> can start an IMF in the same way as the current script.
>
> OK, that's also my expectation.
>
>
>>> - The ugly g-s-d workaround: can we implement this in a bit smarter
>>>    way once when we redesign the framework?
>>
>> The workaround does not work as expected anymore on 13.2.
>> (Let's discuss in a new thread)
>>
>> An idea is to ask users if they use IBus (only on GNOME) or not.
>
> OK.
>
>>> - It would be safer if we can avoid python for select-im...
>>
>>>> 2, The bin floder have 2 scripts, select-im is written in python,
>>> Yes.  Python can be optional on openSUSE, so keeping in bash script
>>> would be the best, IMO.
>>
>> It is just the first prototype.
>> I've already rewritten it into a native application.
>>
>> Then, I want to avoid a complex shell script, which is one of my motivation.
>
> Yeah, it's just an implementation detail we can tackle later.
>
>>> 1, These codes have copyright,
>>>      https://github.com/ftake/chameleon-tongue/blob/master/COPYING#L1
>>>      I'm not sure if there will be some trouble to merge into OpenSUSE.
>>
>> That's normal BSD-3-cause. I think there should be no problem.
>> Of course, I can change the license if needed.
>>
>>
>>>> 4, In /misc/ folder, user use an icon to trigger auto select isn't friendly.
>>>>      I think we will have a GUI program in future, list all IM framework to allow customer choose 1.
>>> I guess this isn't about icon or menu item to launch by a user
>>> manually but rather an auto-start desktop file.
>>
>> right.
>>
>>
>>> 3, Select the default IM framework base language is useless in my opinion,
>>>      So I think select-im only accept an IM name parameter, and set for current user is enough.
>>>      also, no need to divide in locale.d sub-folders. See my previous email.
>>
>> Automatic selection feature may become unnecessary if we get a new configuration
>> interface.
>>
>> However, we still need a way showing a recommended IMF or combination of IMF and engines,
>> which depends on the current locale.
>>
>> Note that there are (still) input methods that does not depend on
>> any IMF such as Fcitx nor IBus.
>>
>> An example is Hime, which is the default IM for zh_TW.
>> Mozc might become a such type of IM after the IBus support is dropped.
>
> Woo hoo, that's an interesting move...
>
>> Freedom sometimes limit smartness...
>
> Yes, as always :)
>
> I thought somehow the things get merged to the common IMF, but it
> doesn't look happening so much yet.  If so, having a selection
> mechanism per locale is still worth, IMO.  It makes things slightly
> more complex, but not too much.  The complexity in the packaging side
> can be avoided by providing a helper macro, for example.
>
>
>>>> 5, In /profile.d/ you gracefully write  fcitx and ibus scripts here.
>>>>      but We should remember that there may be other IM frame like: scim, xim ...
>>>>      Also custemer may remove ibus or fcitx manually.
>>>>      So these start scripts are suppose to keep in the inputmethod rpms,
>>>>      On the other hand, The select program is independent and installed by default.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's still not designed how to integrate this to each package,
>>> as it seems.  My understanding is that each package provides the
>>> profile, just like currently doing to /etc/X11/xim.d/*.
>>
>> I assume that the scripts are contained by every IMF package.
>>
>> Now I cannot do so, there are subpackages of chameleon-tongue:
>> https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/home:ftake:branches:M17N/chameleon-tongue/chameleon-tongue.spec?expand=1
>>
>>
>> If chameleon-tongue keep some catalog of input methods, then it can help users
>> to install required packages.
>>
>> It will be a nice feature to me.
>
> Do you mean that it will help for users to choose the primary IMF at
> installation?  I don't get exactly in which situation you supposed.
>
> So far, we have a list of packages from locale Recommends tag of each
> package.  Certainly, there is no list of IMFs or IMs.  (I don't think
> we have a package group, either?)  From that POV, I would understand
> such a need...
>
>
> thanks,
>
> Takashi
>
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