Re: Does our xim process need an update?

> On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:12:15 +0200,
> Qiang Zhao wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 在 2015年07月26日 15:37, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA 写道:
>>> I've understood your opinion.
>>>
>>> We have started to discuss technical problems to realize our idea
>>> including your "manually selecting IM name".
>>>
>>>
>>>   > On this point, the default settings should be "auto select depending
>>>   > on the current locale"
>>>
>>> This means that we still need "auto select" to allow users to use
>>> some IMs before selecting IM and restarting at the first login.
>>>
>>> If it is acceptable that users need to restart at the first login to use
>>> IMs, I think "auto select" is not necessary.
>>>
>>> # Of course, we must provide a mechanism to ask which IM the user wants
>>> to use.
>>>
>>> Fuminobu Takeyama
>>
>> I want to say:
>> 1, allow users to use some IMs before selecting IM at the first login is
>> useful.
>
> Yes... and a bit of No.  See below.
>
>> 2, The "auto select" is not necessary;
>
> Hmm, what if the system has two IMFs installed?  Which one to take?
I hope we can let customer to choose by themselves (modify 
gnome-initial-tools or modify gdm or others).

>
>> 3,  We must provide a mechanism to ask which IM the user wants.
>>
>> I think there are 2 ways to ask our costomer:
>> 1, gnome-initial-setup ( l don't get the reason why we deprecate, I
>> don't find the reason in ML or any other docs.)
>
> I don't think we won't go for deprecating gnome-initial-setup.  But,
> eventually we might need to work around the conflict with it. The
> problems are:
>
> - gnome-initial-setup isn't included in SLED12 (it was disabled
>    explicitly).
>
> - It doesn't consider for other IMFs than ibus.
>
> I'm not 100% sure about the latter.  Hopefully this got improved
> recently.
>
> And, gnome-initial-setup solves only for GNOME.  So...
but can modify gnome-initial-setup.
I think the major obstacle is the work load.
What I want to say is, let customer to select at this point is correct.

>
>> Or create another program to take the position.
>
> ... something is still needed for other DEs (including the primitive
> one like icewm or bare X).  Oh, also we need to think of Wayland... in
> some time future.
>
>> 2, Create a selection table on GDM. it will call chameleon tongue's
>> desktop file later when customer successfully login.
>
> This would give a flexibility, indeed, but OTOH, too many knobs are
> messy on login screen from UI/UX POV.  I guess GNOME devs won't like
> yet more button in the standard login screen.  But, moving it into a
> special dialog won't help much, either; switching to a different IMF
> is mostly only for experts, and such people can likely do it in other
> way.
Yes,  It's a kind of solution, not the best.
But  In my mind, Let customer select is better than auto select.
Because auto select not always right for customer.

>
> Also, we shouldn't forget about the presence of system administrator.
> A sys admin may set up the default IMF in /etc/sysconfig/language.  In
> that case, sys admin doesn't want to let user choose IMF explicitly
> but rather leave the default as much as possible.
But please note that "auto select" is another kind of "user choose IMF 
explicitly".

for clarify some facts:
current situation:
1, /etc/sysconfig/language
2, auto select | customer select

and what I hope:
1, /etc/sysconfig/language
2, customer select
>
> Last but not least, we need to think of the shared NFS home.  On such
> a system, the selected IMF isn't always available on each machine.
> So, a fallback ("auto select") would be required.
I think "/etc/sysconfig/language" is his fallback.
And we do not need 2 layers of fallback right?
>
>
> Takashi
>
>> Qiang Zhao
>>
>>   > to use.
>>>
>>> On 2015年07月23日 20:40, Qiang Zhao wrote:
>>>>   > On this point, the default settings should be "auto select
>>>> depending on
>>>>   > the current locale"
>>>>   > so far.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I  think I didn't express my thought very clearly,  See the
>>>> previous discussion:
>>>>
>>>> Qiang:
>>>>   > 3, Select the default IM framework base language(current locale) is
>>>> useless in my opinion,
>>>>   >      So I think select-im only accept an IM name parameter, and set
>>>> for current user is enough.
>>>>   >      also, no need to divide in locale.d sub-folders. See my previous
>>>> email.
>>>>
>>>> Takashi
>>>>   > For IM "frameworks", it makes little sense to limit per locale,
>>>>   > indeed.  Most of IM frameworks are locale-agnostic.  Rather their
>>>>   > input method (engine) is specific to locale.  e.g. only ibus or fcitx
>>>>   > package is installed without the engine like ibus-mozc, it's almost
>>>>   > useless.
>>>>   >
>>>>   > A related question is whether we should mandate the IM framework for
>>>>   > all locales.  If user doesn't need more than XKB, why another layer
>>>>   > should be there to make things complicated?
>>>>
>>>> Qiang:
>>>>   > On the other hand,
>>>> -  We still don't know which customer doesn't need more than XKB.
>>>> + We still don't know which customer only need XKB.
>>>>   > So I think the better solution is to make an option on
>>>>   > chameleon-tongue/profile.d
>>>>   > of XKB(No IM Frame work but only XKB).
>>>> + At the same time, abandon "auto select depending on  the current
>>>> locale"
>>>>   > Please notice that even we choose by locales, it  will not always be
>>>> right.
>>>>
>>>> Takashi:
>>>>   > Right.  Currently "none" corresponds to XKB, as XKB is always there as
>>>>   > default on X.
>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>
-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [email protected]