Re: Does our xim process need an update?

 > Could you please show me your grounds, How you get this conclusion?
 >> That's why I said a reasonable way to select the "some IMs" is the "auto
 >> selecting".

The system need to choose one (or some) IMs without users manual selection
before asking their preferred IM. Is there any other idea than auto select?


 > For your question, I don't know what's your relationship between "gnome-initial-setup" and
 > "deprecates IM and IMFs other than IBus",
 > To tell the true, I still don't know.

It provides mechanism so that users select ibus-* engines and ibus-xkb-* layouts
only for GNOME desktop environment.

It never supports IMFs such as Fcitx, Hime, Uim, etc....


 > I want to say is, if customer want to select IM, we can let them make selection on this point,
 > instead of auto selection.

There are technical difficulties since basically, users need relogin to select IMF,
which requires to set new values to environment variables.

# I'm not sure but is there any possibility to interrupt X start up and run some
# applications before starting a desktop environment?


 > What I want to discuss are features.

The feature we should provide is a mechanism to select preferred IM (and/or IMF)
at the first login or an earlier phase.

It's simple and clear, right?


Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

On 2015/07/29 12:29, Qiang Zhao wrote:
>> You need answer to my question I sent you before.
>>
>>  > 1, allow users to use some IMs before selecting IM at the first login
>> is useful.
>>
>> What is some IMs?
> This sentence is copied from you email, I just reference it here. because I support it.
>
>> During this 10 years, auto selecting have been useful for many people.
> then, OK.
> Could you please show me your grounds, How you get this conclusion?
>> That's why I said a reasonable way to select the "some IMs" is the "auto
>> selecting".
>
>>
>>
>>  > 1, gnome-initial-setup (l don't get the reason why we deprecate,
>>  > I don't find the reason in ML or any other docs.)
>>
>> Are you sure that this means that we deprecates IM and IMFs (such as
>> fcitx and hime) other than IBus?
> You can see previous emails:
> Mr Takashi said we do not use gnome-initial-setup, and there already have a discussion.
> I said I don't find the record, and don't know the reason.
> For your question, I don't know what's your relationship between "gnome-initial-setup" and
> "deprecates IM and IMFs other than IBus",
> To tell the true, I still don't know.
>
> For below 2 question:
> What I want to discuss are features.
> We should  make the final decision of features, then discuss the technical details, work load, child
> features under this decision. Right?
>>
>> Fedora did because IBus is one of RedHad's products.
>> They achieve that flexible settings of IM as your idea by selecting
>> one input method framework.
> Sure. I know that.
> I want to say is, if customer want to select IM, we can let them make selection on this point,
> instead of auto selection.
> Because we also can modify or extend or recreate our "gnome-initial-setup".
>
>>
>>  > 2, Create a selection table on GDM. it will call chameleon tongue's
>> desktop file
>>  > later when customer successfully login.
>>
>> Do you change lightdm, sddm, kdm, xdm as well as GDM to ask IM to use?
> What I want to discuss are features.
> We should provide the correct function to customer. that means we should select which your "*dm" is
> our support, and which is not.
>
>>
>>
>> On 2015/07/27 22:12, Qiang Zhao wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 在 2015年07月26日 15:37, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA 写道:
>>>> I've understood your opinion.
>>>>
>>>> We have started to discuss technical problems to realize our idea
>>>> including your "manually selecting IM name".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  > On this point, the default settings should be "auto select depending
>>>>  > on the current locale"
>>>>
>>>> This means that we still need "auto select" to allow users to use
>>>> some IMs before selecting IM and restarting at the first login.
>>>>
>>>> If it is acceptable that users need to restart at the first login to use
>>>> IMs, I think "auto select" is not necessary.
>>>>
>>>> # Of course, we must provide a mechanism to ask which IM the user wants
>>>> to use.
>>>>
>>>> Fuminobu Takeyama
>>>
>>> I want to say:
>>> 1, allow users to use some IMs before selecting IM at the first login
>>> is useful.
>>> 2, The "auto select" is not necessary;
>>> 3,  We must provide a mechanism to ask which IM the user wants.
>>>
>>> I think there are 2 ways to ask our costomer:
>>> 1, gnome-initial-setup ( l don't get the reason why we deprecate, I
>>> don't find the reason in ML or
>>> any other docs.)
>>> Or create another program to take the position.
>>> 2, Create a selection table on GDM. it will call chameleon tongue's
>>> desktop file later when customer
>>> successfully login.
>>>
>>> Qiang Zhao
>>>
>>>  > to use.
>>>>
>>>> On 2015年07月23日 20:40, Qiang Zhao wrote:
>>>>>  > On this point, the default settings should be "auto select
>>>>> depending on
>>>>>  > the current locale"
>>>>>  > so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, I  think I didn't express my thought very clearly,  See the
>>>>> previous discussion:
>>>>>
>>>>> Qiang:
>>>>>  > 3, Select the default IM framework base language(current locale) is
>>>>> useless in my opinion,
>>>>>  >      So I think select-im only accept an IM name parameter, and set
>>>>> for current user is enough.
>>>>>  >      also, no need to divide in locale.d sub-folders. See my
>>>>> previous
>>>>> email.
>>>>>
>>>>> Takashi
>>>>>  > For IM "frameworks", it makes little sense to limit per locale,
>>>>>  > indeed.  Most of IM frameworks are locale-agnostic.  Rather their
>>>>>  > input method (engine) is specific to locale.  e.g. only ibus or
>>>>> fcitx
>>>>>  > package is installed without the engine like ibus-mozc, it's almost
>>>>>  > useless.
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > A related question is whether we should mandate the IM framework for
>>>>>  > all locales.  If user doesn't need more than XKB, why another layer
>>>>>  > should be there to make things complicated?
>>>>>
>>>>> Qiang:
>>>>>  > On the other hand,
>>>>> -  We still don't know which customer doesn't need more than XKB.
>>>>> + We still don't know which customer only need XKB.
>>>>>  > So I think the better solution is to make an option on
>>>>>  > chameleon-tongue/profile.d
>>>>>  > of XKB(No IM Frame work but only XKB).
>>>>> + At the same time, abandon "auto select depending on  the current
>>>>> locale"
>>>>>  > Please notice that even we choose by locales, it  will not always be
>>>>> right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Takashi:
>>>>>  > Right.  Currently "none" corresponds to XKB, as XKB is always
>>>>> there as
>>>>>  > default on X.
>>>>>
>>>>>
-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [email protected]