Re: Discussion: Porting noto font family to our openSUSE

Hi,

 > I will make images for comparing the fonts. (maybe next week)

Please look at these pictures:
[1] 
http://blog.geeko.jp/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/font-comparison-ft-view.png
[2] 
http://blog.geeko.jp/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/font-comparison-gnome-shell.png
[3] 
http://blog.geeko.jp/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/font-comparison-plasma.png
# Article in Japanese http://blog.geeko.jp/ftake/1398

I compared three fonts:
- Noto Sans CJK JP (from Leap repository)
- IPA PGothic (current default for Japanese)
- Migu 1C

According to the result of ft-view [1],
- Noto Sans and Migu 1C have larger line height than IPA PGothic.
- When hinting is enabled, glyphs of Noto Sans looks a bit vertically
   stretched
- For small pixel size, Noto Sans does not improve drastically


Next, I compared those fonts on Nautilus [2] and Plasma Kickoff [3].
Even though Noto Sans and Migu 1C have almost the same height, Noto Sans 
makes larger margins than Migu 1C.

On Plasma Kickoff [3], the margin is too big; The height of Kickoff
menu is over 768 px.


Fuminobu TAKEYAMA (ftake)


On 2016年07月30日 00:51, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:
>>> - cause too big spaces on Plasma Kick off widget (the old launcher)
>>
>> Hm, I didn't know of this.  Could you give a pointer?
>> Does this happen on TW version, right?
>
>
> I will make images for comparing the fonts. (maybe next week)
>
>
>> FWIW, the addition of Provides() is only to noto-sans-cjk-fonts, and
>> this package contains only a single NotoSansCJK.ttc (and a fontconfig
>> file to prepend the sans list).
>
> I remind that now.
> It was separated but now uses ttc file.
>
> The ttc file contains 7 weights of CJK JP/KR/TC/SC and requires about
> 100 MB.
> It would be better to save space that only JP/KR/TC/SC regular and bold
> are bundled into one ttc file, I think.
> # the package name would be google-noto-sans-cjk-basic-weight-fonts
>
>
> Fuminobu TAKEYAMA (ftake)
>
> On 2016/07/27 23:26, Takashi Iwai wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 16:12:35 +0200,
>> Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Noto font family is really nice for printing purpose.
>>> However, as far as I know, there are some concerns about Noto Sans
>>> CJK JP
>>
>> Thanks for the quick checks!
>>
>>> - old fontconfig (on Leap 42.1) wrongly regards medium (not regular)
>>> as a default weight.
>>>    Thus, fonts looks thicker on many applications.
>>
>> This shouldn't be a big issue.  The update is for only OBS M17N:fonts
>> and TW.  If anyone wants to fix the issue on Leap 42.1, user can fetch
>> fontconfig.rpm from OBS M17N repo, too.
>>
>>> - cause too big spaces on Plasma Kick off widget (the old launcher)
>>
>> Hm, I didn't know of this.  Could you give a pointer?
>> Does this happen on TW version, right?
>>
>> I noticed that the noto sans font glyph is actually larger than other
>> fonts (e.g. IPA).  That's why I don't use noto sans on my own
>> desktop.  But it shouldn't be too big.  Plasma kickoff should be
>> fixed, if any.
>>
>>> - it seems that Noto Sans requires sub-pixel rendering for its
>>> expected rendering result.
>>>    As you know sub-pixel rendering is disabled on openSUSE
>>
>> Well, it might be sub-optimal, but it doesn't look too bad even
>> without subpixel rendering to my eyes.  Or maybe I need to buy new
>> glasses.
>>
>> If the fonts are supposed not to be used without subpixel rendering,
>> we should avoid the fonts, of course.  But I don't think it's
>> considered so?
>>
>>> - I think we should split the google-noto-sans-* packages into two or
>>> more packages
>>>    since normal user does not need all weight of Noto Sans. The size
>>> of the packages are
>>>    really huge.
>>
>> FWIW, the addition of Provides() is only to noto-sans-cjk-fonts, and
>> this package contains only a single NotoSansCJK.ttc (and a fontconfig
>> file to prepend the sans list).
>>
>>
>> Takashi
>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Fuminobu Takeyama
>>>
>>> On 2016/07/27 22:31, Takashi Iwai wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:45:39 +0200,
>>>> ZhaoQiang wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, all:
>>>>>
>>>>> As we know, openSUSE leap 42.1 locale zh_* has changed the default
>>>>> fonts to google-noto, and make Chinese openSUSE's font render much
>>>>> beautiful.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the description in wiki page:
>>>>> Noto is a font family designed to cover all the scripts encoded in the
>>>>> Unicode standard. It is designed with the goal of achieving visual
>>>>> harmony (e.g., compatible heights and stroke thicknesses) across
>>>>> multiple languages/scripts. Commissioned by Google, the font is
>>>>> licensed under the SIL Open Font License. Until September 2015, the
>>>>> fonts were under the Apache License 2.0.
>>>>>
>>>>> I propose to port noto font family to other language to openSUSE
>>>>> desktop as default font.
>>>>> But I'm wondering, is there any country or area improper to use it?
>>>>
>>>> For a bit more information: this inquiry came from a bug report for
>>>> SLED12-SP2.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we have already google-noto-fonts and noto-sans-cjk-fonts
>>>> packages.  However, noto-sans-cjk-fonts has the line
>>>>
>>>>     Provides:       locale(zh_CN;zh_SG;zh_TW;zh_HK;zh_MO)
>>>>
>>>> thus only Chinese locales will install this as default.  For making
>>>> noto-sans-cjk font to be installed automatically on Japanese and
>>>> Korean locales, we'd need to put "ja" and "ko" there.
>>>>
>>>> However, there is one pintfall: noto sans CJK fonts are always
>>>> prepended to the list of "sans" aliases, so once when this package is
>>>> installed, this will be used in prior to other fonts as a
>>>> system-default font.
>>>>
>>>> Also note that the Provides() in the spec file plays a role as
>>>> "recommends" (or more accurately, other way round -- the package is
>>>> recommended on the corresponding running locale).  Hence, adding to
>>>> Provides() shouldn't influence on the already installed system, unless
>>>> you do zypper install-recommends or such.
>>>>
>>>> So, if anyone has a strong objection against adding ja and ko locales
>>>> to Provides() of noto-sans-cjk -- so that this package will *not* be
>>>> drug onto a fresh installation, please speak up.
>>>>
>>>> I don't guess there won't be so many people actually against it, but
>>>> we'd like to have a consensus before going forward.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Takashi
>>>>
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