Re: Discussion: Porting noto font family to our openSUSE

Hi All:

Besides Japanese.
Does these have any topic on other language to use google noto fonts in 
Asia?
like Vietnamese, Bengal, Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Iran ...


>> I have double check about your snapshot and suggestions.
>> Not sure if this is a big problems,
>> maybe this because I'm not using Japanese, But it truly doesn't cause
>> any uncomfortable to me.
>
> I am testing Noto Sans CJK on my daily use laptop.
> The line height is more problematic than I expected.
>
> For example, as shown the screen shot of Plasma kick off menu, we need
> change minimal screen resolution.
>
> During writing this mail, the spaces between lines are too big.
>
> BTW, the width of Hiragana and Katakana might cause another problem.
> Although we have been used proportional (variable) width for those
> characters for screens (UIs), Noto Sans provides fixed width glyphs.
>
> # Japanese consume more horizontal spaces for ICT words than Chinese.
>
>
>> Another problem is Noto will cover more characters than other fonts.
>> we won't see much blank in document if we turn to google-noto.
>
> I think on Linux desktop, that is *not* the problem Noto Sans resolves.
> Due to font-config, if a glyph is not provided by the current font,
> font-config can pick glyphs from another font.
>
> The problem Noto Sans resolves is, as described on its website,
> "to support all languages with a harmonious look and feel."
>
> I know this is problem especially when reading a document written in
> multiple languages. Moreover, if users who mainly use English, for
> example, and installed CJK fonts other than Noto Sans then the CJK fonts
> is used for English words. Using Noto Sans globally will resolve
> these issues.
>
> I will ask Japanese community to try Noto Sans CJK JP and send feedback.
>
>
> Fuminobu TAKEYAMA (ftake)
>
>>
>> Another problem is Noto will cover more characters than other fonts.
>> we won't see much blank in document if we turn to google-noto.
>>
>> And google-noto is a fast developed project, some of the problems can be
>> solve in future.
>> In my opinion, only if there are some problem which proved can not be
>> fixed , and at the same time, it's very important to us, then we will
>> denied it.
>> Such as the design problem.
>>
>> Any new feature for a distribution will cause some pan in a short time,
>> But if the direction is correct, It's benefit will always large than the
>> cost for us.
>>
>>
>> Zhao Qiang
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016年07月30日 00:51, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:
>>>>>> - cause too big spaces on Plasma Kick off widget (the old launcher)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hm, I didn't know of this.  Could you give a pointer?
>>>>> Does this happen on TW version, right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will make images for comparing the fonts. (maybe next week)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, the addition of Provides() is only to noto-sans-cjk-fonts, and
>>>>> this package contains only a single NotoSansCJK.ttc (and a fontconfig
>>>>> file to prepend the sans list).
>>>>
>>>> I remind that now.
>>>> It was separated but now uses ttc file.
>>>>
>>>> The ttc file contains 7 weights of CJK JP/KR/TC/SC and requires about
>>>> 100 MB.
>>>> It would be better to save space that only JP/KR/TC/SC regular and bold
>>>> are bundled into one ttc file, I think.
>>>> # the package name would be google-noto-sans-cjk-basic-weight-fonts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fuminobu TAKEYAMA (ftake)
>>>>
>>>> On 2016/07/27 23:26, Takashi Iwai wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 16:12:35 +0200,
>>>>> Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Noto font family is really nice for printing purpose.
>>>>>> However, as far as I know, there are some concerns about Noto Sans
>>>>>> CJK JP
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the quick checks!
>>>>>
>>>>>> - old fontconfig (on Leap 42.1) wrongly regards medium (not regular)
>>>>>> as a default weight.
>>>>>>    Thus, fonts looks thicker on many applications.
>>>>>
>>>>> This shouldn't be a big issue.  The update is for only OBS M17N:fonts
>>>>> and TW.  If anyone wants to fix the issue on Leap 42.1, user can fetch
>>>>> fontconfig.rpm from OBS M17N repo, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - cause too big spaces on Plasma Kick off widget (the old launcher)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hm, I didn't know of this.  Could you give a pointer?
>>>>> Does this happen on TW version, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed that the noto sans font glyph is actually larger than other
>>>>> fonts (e.g. IPA).  That's why I don't use noto sans on my own
>>>>> desktop.  But it shouldn't be too big.  Plasma kickoff should be
>>>>> fixed, if any.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - it seems that Noto Sans requires sub-pixel rendering for its
>>>>>> expected rendering result.
>>>>>>    As you know sub-pixel rendering is disabled on openSUSE
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it might be sub-optimal, but it doesn't look too bad even
>>>>> without subpixel rendering to my eyes.  Or maybe I need to buy new
>>>>> glasses.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the fonts are supposed not to be used without subpixel rendering,
>>>>> we should avoid the fonts, of course.  But I don't think it's
>>>>> considered so?
>>>>>
>>>>>> - I think we should split the google-noto-sans-* packages into two or
>>>>>> more packages
>>>>>>    since normal user does not need all weight of Noto Sans. The size
>>>>>> of the packages are
>>>>>>    really huge.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, the addition of Provides() is only to noto-sans-cjk-fonts, and
>>>>> this package contains only a single NotoSansCJK.ttc (and a fontconfig
>>>>> file to prepend the sans list).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Takashi
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Fuminobu Takeyama
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016/07/27 22:31, Takashi Iwai wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:45:39 +0200,
>>>>>>> ZhaoQiang wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi, all:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As we know, openSUSE leap 42.1 locale zh_* has changed the default
>>>>>>>> fonts to google-noto, and make Chinese openSUSE's font render much
>>>>>>>> beautiful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As the description in wiki page:
>>>>>>>> Noto is a font family designed to cover all the scripts encoded in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Unicode standard. It is designed with the goal of achieving visual
>>>>>>>> harmony (e.g., compatible heights and stroke thicknesses) across
>>>>>>>> multiple languages/scripts. Commissioned by Google, the font is
>>>>>>>> licensed under the SIL Open Font License. Until September 2015, the
>>>>>>>> fonts were under the Apache License 2.0.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I propose to port noto font family to other language to openSUSE
>>>>>>>> desktop as default font.
>>>>>>>> But I'm wondering, is there any country or area improper to use it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a bit more information: this inquiry came from a bug report for
>>>>>>> SLED12-SP2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, we have already google-noto-fonts and noto-sans-cjk-fonts
>>>>>>> packages.  However, noto-sans-cjk-fonts has the line
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Provides:       locale(zh_CN;zh_SG;zh_TW;zh_HK;zh_MO)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thus only Chinese locales will install this as default.  For making
>>>>>>> noto-sans-cjk font to be installed automatically on Japanese and
>>>>>>> Korean locales, we'd need to put "ja" and "ko" there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, there is one pintfall: noto sans CJK fonts are always
>>>>>>> prepended to the list of "sans" aliases, so once when this
>>>>>>> package is
>>>>>>> installed, this will be used in prior to other fonts as a
>>>>>>> system-default font.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also note that the Provides() in the spec file plays a role as
>>>>>>> "recommends" (or more accurately, other way round -- the package is
>>>>>>> recommended on the corresponding running locale).  Hence, adding to
>>>>>>> Provides() shouldn't influence on the already installed system,
>>>>>>> unless
>>>>>>> you do zypper install-recommends or such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, if anyone has a strong objection against adding ja and ko
>>>>>>> locales
>>>>>>> to Provides() of noto-sans-cjk -- so that this package will *not* be
>>>>>>> drug onto a fresh installation, please speak up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't guess there won't be so many people actually against it, but
>>>>>>> we'd like to have a consensus before going forward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Takashi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>
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