Re: [RFC]refactor Noto CJK fonts packaging

On Saturday, 8 April 2017 02:09:53 PDT=EF=BC=8CTakashi Iwai wrote=EF=BC=9A
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 10:21:34 +0200,
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> Marguerite Su wrote:
> > Hi, Takashi,
> >=20
> > On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Takashi Iwai <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Heh, so this answers your question in the beginning "how to display
> > > CJK chars right in a Latin environment"?  Answer: "they don't care" :)
> > >=20
> > > Apart from kidding, IMO, we still need a fontconfig help no matter
> > > whether CJK fonts are split or not.  The same problem still appears
> > > when you install both Chinese and Japanese fonts on a single system,
> > > for example.
> >=20
> > Yes...we need to use that fontconfig configuration to prepend
> > sans-serif, serif and monospace.
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> > I think your concern is that one installed:
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> > * noto-sans-cjkjp-*
> > * noto-sans-cjksc-*
> >=20
> > on the same system.
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> > But that assumption isn't real actually...because:
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> > noto-sans-cjkjp-* actually covers all CJK chars...the only difference
> > is the order of the glyphs,
> > that is, Chinese displays Kanji in Chinese glyph...
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> > So far I didn't see concern like "I'm Chinese but I want to display
> > Kanji in Japanese style."
> >=20
> > why would you want to install SC if you can display Simplified Chinese?
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> Well, suppose you install only noto-sans-cjksc-fonts for Simplified
> Chinese locale, and visit a Japanese web page.  Would it be shown
> correctly with Japanese glyphs even for the CJK unified ideographs?
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> If my understanding is correct, it wouldn't.  When you install
> noto-sans-cjkja-fonts in addition and choose it explicitly, then you
> can show the Japanese glyphs for such letters properly, though.
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> > Of course it may seem duplicate in size.
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> > But so far I didn't see any concern about this, that is:
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> > Why a Japanese wants all the Chinese chars bundled in a Japanese font.
> >=20
> > Maybe some years later a Korean will raise such questions...because the=
ir
> > language contains much more difference than the one between JP and
> > Chinese.
> >=20
> > Answers to all the questions:
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> > The only way to solve this, is to increase the source size.
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> > That is, use the four 115mb source, just to get monospace fonts.
> >=20
> > And use region specific font for JP, KR, SC and TC separately :-)
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> Sorry, I'm confused by the argument here.  I supposed that splitting
> to subpackages for each region and weight is for reducing the size as
> the primary goal?
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> We might need to reach to some compromise between the reasonable size
> reduction and the easy installation / management, but the above
> doesn't look well-explaining to me.
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> BTW, please keep Frederic in the loop, as he's involved in SLE-Desktop
> side.
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>=20
> thanks,
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> Takashi
Certain characters are shared among CJK in the sense that they have same=20
unicode.

The problem is, they have same unicode, but differnt countries write them i=
n=20
the different way. For example, "=E9=AA=A8".

(Taken from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%AA%A8)

Chinese: http://i.imgur.com/trR8UTH.png
Japanese: http://i.imgur.com/UgTOdDN.png

Hope you noticed the difference in the image above. But if you try to copy=
=20
paste the character from webpage to your desktop app (kwrite for example),=
=20
you'll see it "changes" to a certain shape depends on your system=20
configurtaion.

And how the webpage deals with that? They use lang=3D"ja" in the html tag t=
o=20
force it to use the Japanese standard, and lang=3D"zh" to force the Chinese=
=20
standard.

The problem is, unlike the webpage which allows you force the font usage wi=
th=20
"lang", the font used by your desktop doesn't take "LANG" or "LC_*" into=20
consideration (problaby you can take that as a bug in fontconfig ? I don't=
=20
know).

When OTC is installed (and without any fontconfig configuration), even unde=
r the=20
"zh_XX.UTF-8", it will use the style of second image to display "=E9=AA=A8"=
=2E Not to=20
mention the character that looks totally different https://en.wiktionary.or=
g/
wiki/%E9%97%A8 . (and sadly they share the same unicode, not possible for=20
desktop app to distinguish them).


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