Re: Suggestion on how to improve the client-building proocess

Dashamir Hoxha <[email protected]> Sat, 6 Oct 2018 17:56:37 +0200
Newsgroups gmane.linux.terminal-server.devel
Message-ID <CAMucfLzO5XO+p+aYmbmEW2zBJ_PhSXZ20F=131VB4cMbBnzxfQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 4:20 PM Franz Dietrich <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> I truely dislike the idea of having a "forced" same setup for server and
> clients - which is why I'm having a chroot setup...
>

It is not necessarily a "forced" setup. Sometimes all you have is 20 or 30
identical computers and no server. In this case this is the best setup.
I really like the idea of using one of the computers as a "template" for
the others.


> however I do understand, that many teachers would like to install and
> maintain graphically.
>

It is not only this. Sometimes building a chrooted system may be
significantly
more difficult than installing it from a DVD. This is the case for example
with
LinuxMint. I agree that it is not good that you cannot install easily a
chrooted
LinuxMint system, but this is how it is (until LinuxMint improves it).

An alternative approach to the current would be to maintain a qemu-vm of
> the client image and package this quemu as bootimage.
> So the workflow for the server woud be:
>
>     1. install packages (graphically),
>     2. launch "manage-client"
>     3. get a window with a virtual machine that will then be installed
>     4. do all the setup etc.
>     5. on shutdown of the vm the image is built/updated
>

You can do this with VirtualBox as well, but the drawback is that VirtualBox
supports only Intel architectures (i386/amd64). Qemu/KVM maybe is better
since it supports more architectures.

Any thoughts on the feasability, time needed to implement this?
>

I think that it is possible. The time depends on who implements it and how
familiar is with the existing code of ltsp.
One option can be to try it as a GSoC project (or some other kind of
sponsored
project). However, unless you can find a good student, the success of the
project
is not guaranteed.

By the way, what would be a good way for keeping and discussing project
ideas?
I am afraid that we are going to forget about them, if we don't keep them
in a central
place where we can come back and review


> My guess is that this approach would be much cleaner and would require
> not too much additional code - though a lot would be needed to change.
> I also think it would be less confusing for those who only maintain the
> image without deeper linux knowledge.
>
> All the best
> Franz (enaut in irc)
>
> Am 05.10.2018 um 22:42 schrieb Dashamir Hoxha:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I noticed recently that whatever I install on the ltsp-server
> > ends up running on the ltsp-clients as well (with chrootless mode).
> > Actually this is a well-known fact, but I didn't think there was
> > anything wrong with it, until I realized that apache2, and tomcat,
> > and mysql were running on the client too, eating up a lot of ram!
> >
> > As a workaround I changed the order of scripts so that the image
> > of the ltsp-client is generated as soon as possible, and then we
> > proceed with the other installations and configurations, with
> > guacamole, etc.
> >
> > However this solution has the drawback that afterwards you cannot
> > install any more packages on the client image (if you need to).
> > The only way is to rebuild the ltsp-server from scratch, and this takes
> > a lot of time (about one hour), since lots of things have to be
> > downloaded and installed (sometimes even compiled from source).
> >
> > Is it possible to unpack the image of a chrootless client to a directory,
> > to chroot to this directory and install any additional packages, and
> > then to pack it back again? This could be much faster than rebuilding
> > the whole server from scratch (and also more elegant).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dashamir
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > Ltsp-developer mailing list.   To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> >       https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer
> > For additional LTSP help,   try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-developer mailing list.   To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>       https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer
> For additional LTSP help,   try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Oct 6,=
 2018 at 4:20 PM Franz Dietrich &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dietrich@teilgedanken=
.de">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><br>
I truely dislike the idea of having a &quot;forced&quot; same setup for ser=
ver and<br>
clients - which is why I&#39;m having a chroot setup...<br></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>It is not necessarily a &quot;forced&quot; setup. Sometime=
s all you have is 20 or 30</div><div>identical computers and no server. In =
this case this is the best setup.</div><div>I really like the idea of using=
 one of the computers as a &quot;template&quot; for the others.=C2=A0</div>=
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
however I do understand, that many teachers would like to install and<br>
maintain graphically.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It is not only th=
is. Sometimes building a chrooted system may be significantly</div><div>mor=
e difficult than installing it from a DVD. This is the case for example wit=
h</div><div>LinuxMint. I agree that it is not good that you cannot install =
easily a chrooted</div><div>LinuxMint system, but this is how it is (until =
LinuxMint improves it).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
An alternative approach to the current would be to maintain a qemu-vm of<br=
>
the client image and package this quemu as bootimage.<br>
So the workflow for the server woud be:<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. install packages (graphically),<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2. launch &quot;manage-client&quot;<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3. get a window with a virtual machine that will then be=
 installed<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4. do all the setup etc.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5. on shutdown of the vm the image is built/updated<br><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>You can do this with VirtualBox as well, bu=
t the drawback is that VirtualBox</div><div>supports only Intel architectur=
es (i386/amd64). Qemu/KVM maybe is better</div><div>since it supports more =
architectures.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Any thoughts on the feasability, time needed to implement this?<br></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>I think that it is possible. The time depends on w=
ho implements it and how</div><div>familiar is with the existing code of lt=
sp.</div><div>One option can be to try it as a GSoC project (or some other =
kind of sponsored</div><div>project). However, unless you can find a good s=
tudent, the success of the project</div><div>is not guaranteed.</div><div><=
br></div><div>By the way, what would be a good way for keeping and discussi=
ng project ideas?</div><div>I am afraid that we are going to forget about t=
hem, if we don&#39;t keep them in a central</div><div>place where we can co=
me back and review</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
My guess is that this approach would be much cleaner and would require<br>
not too much additional code - though a lot would be needed to change.<br>
I also think it would be less confusing for those who only maintain the<br>
image without deeper linux knowledge.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Franz (enaut in irc)<br>
<br>
Am 05.10.2018 um 22:42 schrieb Dashamir Hoxha:<br>
&gt; Hi,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I noticed recently that whatever I install on the ltsp-server<br>
&gt; ends up running on the ltsp-clients as well (with chrootless mode).<br=
>
&gt; Actually this is a well-known fact, but I didn&#39;t think there was<b=
r>
&gt; anything wrong with it, until I realized that apache2, and tomcat,<br>
&gt; and mysql were running on the client too, eating up a lot of ram!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; As a workaround I changed the order of scripts so that the image<br>
&gt; of the ltsp-client is generated as soon=C2=A0as possible, and then we<=
br>
&gt; proceed with the other installations and configurations, with<br>
&gt; guacamole, etc.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; However this solution has the drawback that afterwards you cannot<br>
&gt; install any more packages on the client image (if you need to).<br>
&gt; The only way is to rebuild the ltsp-server from scratch, and this take=
s<br>
&gt; a lot of time (about one hour), since lots of things have to be<br>
&gt; downloaded and installed (sometimes even compiled from source).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Is it possible to unpack the image of a chrootless client to a directo=
ry,<br>
&gt; to chroot to this directory and install any additional packages, and<b=
r>
&gt; then to pack it back again? This could be much faster than rebuilding<=
br>
&gt; the whole server from scratch (and also more elegant).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Dashamir<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _____________________________________________________________________<=
br>
&gt; Ltsp-developer mailing list.=C2=A0 =C2=A0To un-subscribe, or change pr=
efs, goto:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lis=
ts/listinfo/ltsp-developer" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://li=
sts.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer</a><br>
&gt; For additional LTSP help,=C2=A0 =C2=A0try #ltsp channel on <a href=3D"=
http://irc.freenode.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">irc.freenode.=
net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_____________________________________________________________________<br>
Ltsp-developer mailing list.=C2=A0 =C2=A0To un-subscribe, or change prefs, =
goto:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinf=
o/ltsp-developer" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.source=
forge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer</a><br>
For additional LTSP help,=C2=A0 =C2=A0try #ltsp channel on <a href=3D"http:=
//irc.freenode.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">irc.freenode.net</=
a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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_____________________________________________________________________
Ltsp-developer mailing list.   To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
      https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer
For additional LTSP help,   try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

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