Re: Suggestion on how to improve the client-building proocess
Dashamir Hoxha <[email protected]> Sat, 6 Oct 2018 17:56:37 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.linux.terminal-server.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAMucfLzO5XO+p+aYmbmEW2zBJ_PhSXZ20F=131VB4cMbBnzxfQ@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============7673088879448433836== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000091b5df0577916f47" --00000000000091b5df0577916f47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 4:20 PM Franz Dietrich <[email protected]> wrote: > > I truely dislike the idea of having a "forced" same setup for server and > clients - which is why I'm having a chroot setup... > It is not necessarily a "forced" setup. Sometimes all you have is 20 or 30 identical computers and no server. In this case this is the best setup. I really like the idea of using one of the computers as a "template" for the others. > however I do understand, that many teachers would like to install and > maintain graphically. > It is not only this. Sometimes building a chrooted system may be significantly more difficult than installing it from a DVD. This is the case for example with LinuxMint. I agree that it is not good that you cannot install easily a chrooted LinuxMint system, but this is how it is (until LinuxMint improves it). An alternative approach to the current would be to maintain a qemu-vm of > the client image and package this quemu as bootimage. > So the workflow for the server woud be: > > 1. install packages (graphically), > 2. launch "manage-client" > 3. get a window with a virtual machine that will then be installed > 4. do all the setup etc. > 5. on shutdown of the vm the image is built/updated > You can do this with VirtualBox as well, but the drawback is that VirtualBox supports only Intel architectures (i386/amd64). Qemu/KVM maybe is better since it supports more architectures. Any thoughts on the feasability, time needed to implement this? > I think that it is possible. The time depends on who implements it and how familiar is with the existing code of ltsp. One option can be to try it as a GSoC project (or some other kind of sponsored project). However, unless you can find a good student, the success of the project is not guaranteed. By the way, what would be a good way for keeping and discussing project ideas? I am afraid that we are going to forget about them, if we don't keep them in a central place where we can come back and review > My guess is that this approach would be much cleaner and would require > not too much additional code - though a lot would be needed to change. > I also think it would be less confusing for those who only maintain the > image without deeper linux knowledge. > > All the best > Franz (enaut in irc) > > Am 05.10.2018 um 22:42 schrieb Dashamir Hoxha: > > Hi, > > > > I noticed recently that whatever I install on the ltsp-server > > ends up running on the ltsp-clients as well (with chrootless mode). > > Actually this is a well-known fact, but I didn't think there was > > anything wrong with it, until I realized that apache2, and tomcat, > > and mysql were running on the client too, eating up a lot of ram! > > > > As a workaround I changed the order of scripts so that the image > > of the ltsp-client is generated as soon as possible, and then we > > proceed with the other installations and configurations, with > > guacamole, etc. > > > > However this solution has the drawback that afterwards you cannot > > install any more packages on the client image (if you need to). > > The only way is to rebuild the ltsp-server from scratch, and this takes > > a lot of time (about one hour), since lots of things have to be > > downloaded and installed (sometimes even compiled from source). > > > > Is it possible to unpack the image of a chrootless client to a directory, > > to chroot to this directory and install any additional packages, and > > then to pack it back again? This could be much faster than rebuilding > > the whole server from scratch (and also more elegant). > > > > Thanks, > > Dashamir > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > Ltsp-developer mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto: > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer > > For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > Ltsp-developer mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer > For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net > --00000000000091b5df0577916f47 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Oct 6,= 2018 at 4:20 PM Franz Dietrich <<a href=3D"mailto:dietrich@teilgedanken= .de">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-= left:1ex"><br> I truely dislike the idea of having a "forced" same setup for ser= ver and<br> clients - which is why I'm having a chroot setup...<br></blockquote><di= v><br></div><div>It is not necessarily a "forced" setup. Sometime= s all you have is 20 or 30</div><div>identical computers and no server. In = this case this is the best setup.</div><div>I really like the idea of using= one of the computers as a "template" for the others.=C2=A0</div>= <div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8= ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> however I do understand, that many teachers would like to install and<br> maintain graphically.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It is not only th= is. Sometimes building a chrooted system may be significantly</div><div>mor= e difficult than installing it from a DVD. This is the case for example wit= h</div><div>LinuxMint. I agree that it is not good that you cannot install = easily a chrooted</div><div>LinuxMint system, but this is how it is (until = LinuxMint improves it).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot= e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> An alternative approach to the current would be to maintain a qemu-vm of<br= > the client image and package this quemu as bootimage.<br> So the workflow for the server woud be:<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. install packages (graphically),<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2. launch "manage-client"<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3. get a window with a virtual machine that will then be= installed<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4. do all the setup etc.<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5. on shutdown of the vm the image is built/updated<br><= /blockquote><div><br></div><div>You can do this with VirtualBox as well, bu= t the drawback is that VirtualBox</div><div>supports only Intel architectur= es (i386/amd64). Qemu/KVM maybe is better</div><div>since it supports more = architectures.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Any thoughts on the feasability, time needed to implement this?<br></blockq= uote><div><br></div><div>I think that it is possible. The time depends on w= ho implements it and how</div><div>familiar is with the existing code of lt= sp.</div><div>One option can be to try it as a GSoC project (or some other = kind of sponsored</div><div>project). However, unless you can find a good s= tudent, the success of the project</div><div>is not guaranteed.</div><div><= br></div><div>By the way, what would be a good way for keeping and discussi= ng project ideas?</div><div>I am afraid that we are going to forget about t= hem, if we don't keep them in a central</div><div>place where we can co= me back and review</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> My guess is that this approach would be much cleaner and would require<br> not too much additional code - though a lot would be needed to change.<br> I also think it would be less confusing for those who only maintain the<br> image without deeper linux knowledge.<br> <br> All the best<br> Franz (enaut in irc)<br> <br> Am 05.10.2018 um 22:42 schrieb Dashamir Hoxha:<br> > Hi,<br> ><br> > I noticed recently that whatever I install on the ltsp-server<br> > ends up running on the ltsp-clients as well (with chrootless mode).<br= > > Actually this is a well-known fact, but I didn't think there was<b= r> > anything wrong with it, until I realized that apache2, and tomcat,<br> > and mysql were running on the client too, eating up a lot of ram!<br> ><br> > As a workaround I changed the order of scripts so that the image<br> > of the ltsp-client is generated as soon=C2=A0as possible, and then we<= br> > proceed with the other installations and configurations, with<br> > guacamole, etc.<br> ><br> > However this solution has the drawback that afterwards you cannot<br> > install any more packages on the client image (if you need to).<br> > The only way is to rebuild the ltsp-server from scratch, and this take= s<br> > a lot of time (about one hour), since lots of things have to be<br> > downloaded and installed (sometimes even compiled from source).<br> ><br> > Is it possible to unpack the image of a chrootless client to a directo= ry,<br> > to chroot to this directory and install any additional packages, and<b= r> > then to pack it back again? This could be much faster than rebuilding<= br> > the whole server from scratch (and also more elegant).<br> ><br> > Thanks,<br> > Dashamir<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > _____________________________________________________________________<= br> > Ltsp-developer mailing list.=C2=A0 =C2=A0To un-subscribe, or change pr= efs, goto:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lis= ts/listinfo/ltsp-developer" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://li= sts.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer</a><br> > For additional LTSP help,=C2=A0 =C2=A0try #ltsp channel on <a href=3D"= http://irc.freenode.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">irc.freenode.= net</a><br> <br> <br> <br> _____________________________________________________________________<br> Ltsp-developer mailing list.=C2=A0 =C2=A0To un-subscribe, or change prefs, = goto:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinf= o/ltsp-developer" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.source= forge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer</a><br> For additional LTSP help,=C2=A0 =C2=A0try #ltsp channel on <a href=3D"http:= //irc.freenode.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">irc.freenode.net</= a><br> </blockquote></div></div> --00000000000091b5df0577916f47-- --===============7673088879448433836== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --===============7673088879448433836== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _____________________________________________________________________ Ltsp-developer mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-developer For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net --===============7673088879448433836==--