Re: Re: (Univ that only teaches unix/linux)

Lawrence,

To quote yourself:

   "A university education is supposed to provide you with
   a broad knowledge base."

I submit that (in the context of a CS degree) the definition of "broad" 
*does* include products that operate in an MS product environment 
regardless of whether you like them or not or whether they are inferior, 
superior, or whatever.

For the same reason, a university education should include classes on all 
sorts of things that aren't exactly to one's current taste.

As for the job market, I believe that (rightly or wrongly) most 
college-bound young peoples' thoughts are focused on getting jobs more than 
getting a well-rounded education that helps them be better people that will 
benefit humanity, their community, and themselves.  My observation is that 
they don't yet know those other things exist.  They do, however, know that 
they need jobs and thus need whatever skills employers demand (rightly or 
wrongly).

I suggest that all the "don't teach MS at my university" passion should 
instead be addressed to the corporate CEOs, CFOs, boards, CIOs, etc., who 
need help learning what linux, unix, and the world of open software and 
systems has to offer.  These people believe the MS adds they see on TV and 
they instruct their subordinates to buy MS products.

Change has to happen both at the top and the bottom.

Jay

Lawrence MacIntyre wrote:
> If all you want is training for entry-level coding jobs, then don't go
> to a University.  Go to a 2 year Community College.  That is the role
> that those schools fill.  A university education is supposed to provide
> you with a broad knowledge base.  The 2 year school will give you some
> background in operating systems and architecture, but will focus on
> training for the job market.
> 
> On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 14:24, Jay Smith wrote:
> 
>>Sawan,
>>
>>While I agree in principle about the goodness of unix/linux, etc., I am 
>>concerned that young people coming out of school need to get JOBS and 
>>*part* of the University's role to give them the training and credentials 
>>they need to enter the world of work.
>>
>>The ugly truth is that there are a lot of shops out there that run *only* 
>>MS products.
>>
>>While the student might get a better education if they only learn 
>>linux/unix, they might not be as well equipped for the work force if they 
>>don't know MS stuff too (regardless of the quality or worthwhileness of the 
>>MS products).
>>
>>Students and there parents are well advised to consider all angles of this 
>>and address such questions with the CS department heads.
>>
>>Jay
>>
>>
>>Sawan Vithlani wrote:
>>
>>>>Sadly, the lessons of this text are seldom taught in Universities. On a
>>>>recent tour of colleges with my son to select a computer science school, 
>>>>had a conversation with the Dean of Undergraduate CS studies at a
>>>>prestigious school. The Dean told us that the school focused on Linux,
>>>>Solaris and Java. I asked what my son might learn about new technologies
>>>>like C# and .NET during his four years at the school. "Nothing, if we can
>>>>help it!" was the answer.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry, dont mean to troll or anything, but I would say this is a topic of 
>>>deep argument and flamewars among people who really understand UNIX and 
>>>people who are relative newcomers. If you are an experienced UNIX user 
>>>then I apologise for all this.
>>>
>>>For example, some of the utilities/programs have to be maintained as they 
>>>are to maintain compatibilities/portability between similar systems 
>>>(Solaris/Linux as an example). Again, if you use this stuff day to day, 
>>>you will understand the quirky behaviour and appreciate why it was 
>>>introduced.
>>>
>>>As for the CS Dean, sorry but he is absolutely right. First of all C# 
>>>and .NET have nothing to do with Linux/UNIX, their design/implementation, 
>>>or annoyances. C# and .NET are not "new technologies" they are merely 
>>>a device invented by a corporation to further their monopolistic policies and 
>>>ambitions. .NET is a direct respone to JAVA, which was eating up their 
>>>market like anything. .NET allows them to have a greater stranglehold 
>>>over the devloper.  
>>>
>>>Also look at it this way: if you consider Linux/JAVA to be more low level 
>>>stuff, learning it will enable your child to easily grasp higher 
>>>technologies. It is much more harder to go from .NET to .CAPUCCINO if all 
>>>you know is high level .NET style stuff. Knowledge of low level stuff 
>>>enables easier transitions. Things like Linux allow your kid to poke into 
>>>the very heart of the system and mess around and thus, learn something. 
>>>.NET and related stuff will only allow her to make "higher level " 
>>>software (web pages, apps, etc) which, frankly, any one can do in these 
>>>days of point and click developer tools.  
>>>
>>>Another thing: if you are a fee paying parent, be grateful that the Uni 
>>>is using excellent and free software to teach you child. If they use 
>>>proprietory stuff, who do you think is going to finally foot the license 
>>>bills? Who do you think is going to repay the same bills after a 3-5 year 
>>>cycle as the Uni is now into a "forced to upgrade to newer version" mode?
>>>
>>>Sawan

-- 
Jay Smith

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