Re: licensing

Jeremy - Please only send your replies directly to the list.  Don't cc
me or email it directly to me.

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 05:12:42PM -0700, Jeremy C. Reed wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Jeff Kinz wrote:
> > The Linux Kernel versus the BSD kernel.  Linux is far more widespread,
> > has been ported to more hardware platforms, is supported by more
> > independent developers, is supported by many, many times more commercial
> > companies, and is for more widely and numerously distributed than the
> > BSD kernel.  Were talking orders of magnitude.
> 
> Point me to a list that shows that Linux has been ported to more platforms
> than *BSD. From my last count, NetBSD supports over 55 different hardware
> platforms (and many of the individual NetBSD ports support multiple
> architectures too).
Quick google hit - from 1998 :
Quot: " Market share for the Linux operating system surged by 212 percent in
1998, a growth rate that outpaced Windows NT, NetWare, Unix, and all
others in the server market, according to a new study."

http://www.business-linux.at/idc/linux.marketshare.html

Dan Kuznetsky is the IDC Researcher quoted in the article.  I used to
work with him.  He's a good guy, well respected for the work he does
and deservedly so.

You'll notice that BSD isn't even mentioned this article.  I'm sorry, but
even in 1995 or so when I was pushing IDC to move to Linux internally,
(sadly, I was not successful),  BSD wasn't even a pimple on the large
hairy buttocks of the OS platform market.  BSD is so small it simply
gets lumped in with "other".

You'll notice (remember this is 1998, five years ago.) that the article
states that Linux shipments already matched "All other Unix shipments".
Linux has continued to grow at an ever increasing rate since then.


In 2000 another article IDC/Kusnetzky again had this table in it:
 Linux rising
Market share for server operating systems, 1998 vs. 1999, in percent.
OS            1998 1999
Windows NT      38 38
Linux           16 25
Netware         23 19
Unix            19 15
Other            4 3
Source: IDC
See the article here :
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-236732.html?legacy=cnet

The article states that in 1999 Linux attained the second largest
market share in the server market. Notice that Linux's share of the
market is fully 60% larger than all Unix.

If NetBSD has been ported to it then Linux is there as well. All 55
times.  You're a journalist Jeremy, if you really want a list of all the
hardware Linux has been ported to, do the research and publish it
yourself.  (Hint ==> http://www.tldp.org/ )

So - now we have NetBsd - 55 and Linux 55, now lets add this web page of
28 PDA's all running Linux and not running BSD:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8728350077.html

score now Linux - 73, BSD - 55

and 19 more single board computers :
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8498487406.html

And there's lots more - Does BSD run on any wristwatches that you know
of ?   linux = 2

How about Mainframes? Like an IBM 390 ? or IBM's ZFrame ?

How about robots ?  Here's 8 robots running Linux,
5 smart cameras, 4 automotive telematics systems,
and 12 miscellaneous other devices
(Sorry - couldn't find a partridge in a pear tree. :-) )

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2478437967.html

Oh - and - all of the pages above are out of date and missing lots of
other new entries.


> 
> Also, I don't know of any lists or research showing that Linux is
> supported by more independent developers, commercial companies, or more
> widely distributed.
Show me a list that says it isn't.  I made my statements.  If you want
them proved or disproved come up with your own examples.  Market
research is an extremely valuable item.  Go check out how much a
subscription to any of IDC's, or Gartner's or Forrester's publications
is.

Since I used to work for IDC, I'll go with their standard: A company has
to be making at least 10 million a year to count.
So HP, IBM, SUN, SCO (Bleaagh!), Dell  - examples of commercial
companies that support Linux and not BSD. (AFAIK)
> 
> That would be a great survey idea.
> 
> Many companies, like F5 Networks, Nokia, IBM, Erickson, GNAT, Apple,
> Microsoft (including recent Services for Unix), Juniper, Procom, Quantum,
> First Intelligent Array, American Megatrends, DataHive Networking,
> Zetta Systems, and Sun, have products based on BSD.

Your actually including Microsoft as an example of the "Goodness" of the
BSD license?  Wow.  
> 
> It is truly hard to measure who uses BSD, because companies can build
> products based on it without giving back.
Um - Ok, but the issue being discussed is what License would be better
to use for south Africa Gov't - GPL or BSD ?
> 
> BSD has helped create many paying jobs. It would be interesting to have a
> survey researching how professional developers have had employment or lost
> employment based on the open source they use.
> 
> It is true that Linux gets more media attention and I am sure Linux is
> used by more end-users. I don't think this is related to the exact license
> itself.

It certainly is.  For example Telestra of Australia is converting
hundreds of thousands of desktops to Linux - Why - because its a 
true Open Source computing platform that cannot be "Locked in"
BSD allows lock in and that is what business see as a major problem
after having been tied to the Microsoft platform for so long.

Here is a presentation I gave at MIT recently
see: http://www.ocean-usa.org/oitc/event329.php
Look for the link on the right hand side that says "Jeff Kinz's slides"
> 

-- 
Jeff Kinz, Open-PC, Emergent Research,  Hudson, MA.  [email protected]
copyright 2003.  Use is restricted. Any use is an 
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