Re: Naive DEFSYSTEM replacement

On Sun, 2025-07-27 at 13:18 +0200, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 27, 2025 at 11:27 AM Adam Weaver <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > (defun >box (&key title rhs secondary padded id content)
> >   (html
> >     (:div (:class "box" :class secondary :class padded :id id)
> >           (when title (html (>inline :between t :class "box-title")
> >   
> >                             (:span () title) rhs))
> >           content)))

> Of course.  Of course.  Let me see what happens when you do
> 
> cl-prompt> (>box)
> 

Well it generates what I think it should ... 

CL-USER> (riskmate::>box)
"<div class=\"box\"></div>"
CL-USER> 

... what did *you* think it would generate?

> > 
> > Oh samesies. I honestly try to use TP libraries, but they never
> > work
> > the way I quite want them to. So I end up shaving some yaks and
> > writing
> > my own.
> > 
> 
> 
> Yask that work on LW only.

Yep. Because I'm not writing libraries for other people. I'm writing
them for myself. Was that not clear?

Look if I *wanted* to write open source stuff for other people, I'd de
facto have to be using SBCL, since that's where most of the open-
source-users seem to hang out. 

I, however, fell in love with LW's approach (except the editor. Try as
I might, I can't cuddle close to the editor), because it seemed the
best-supported and most well-rounded of the commercial solutions. 

I *wanted* to like ACL - I think Allegrograph might be possibly be
magic - but there were too many hurdles for my taste at the time. And
the ethos of "we'll give you a licence for cheap, but you have to
negotiate individually with us if you want to distribute" sort of
rubbed me up the wrong way.

And SBCL's approach to delivery (no tree shaker) of "save-lisp-and-die"
sort of leaves me cold. 

Sorry, off topic, my personal road to lisp isn't interesting.

> Having said that, the issue is IMHO, not to have the "shortest" code,
> which usually falls short here and there, but not to have the
> "maximally bloated one" too.
> 

Oh of course. I didn't mention code length as a measure of greatness, I
meant it more as a "probably does less because it's shorter" but my
*needs* are lesser, too.

> > 
> > I'd really like a reactive CAPI interface; if I ever do need some
> > CAPI
> > love I'll probably shave a herd of yaks to implement a reactive
> > front-
> > end on it first. Bad, bad use of my time.
> 
> I'd like to have a CAPI that works on CCL.  And SBCL, and ABCL, and
> ...
> 

Well, doesn't that sort of exist? CLIM and clones?

Now on the topic of MCCLIM, I remember Kenny spewing about ASDF some
time, he commented that ASDF intentionally loads files in reverse
order, in order to support MCCLIM or something. He was having problems
with ASDF too. I didn't really follow what he was talking about to be
honest; I could never get his stuff to work for me because it was so
ACL specific. 

Yes I see the irony in my stuff being LW specific. But the difference
is that I'm not writing stuff for public consumption :)


> Kenny can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/kenny.tilton
> 

Wouldn't be the same. I can't imagine he's screaming about cells on
facebook. 

PS thanks for responding inline - top-posting really is the devil.

A.

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