Re: Naive DEFSYSTEM replacement

On Sun, Jul 27, 2025 at 2:08 PM Adam Weaver <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 2025-07-27 at 13:18 +0200, Marco Antoniotti wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 27, 2025 at 11:27 AM Adam Weaver <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > (defun >box (&key title rhs secondary padded id content)
> > >   (html
> > >     (:div (:class "box" :class secondary :class padded :id id)
> > >           (when title (html (>inline :between t :class "box-title")
> > >
> > >                             (:span () title) rhs))
> > >           content)))
>
> > Of course.  Of course.  Let me see what happens when you do
> >
> > cl-prompt> (>box)
> >
>
> Well it generates what I think it should ...
>
> CL-USER> (riskmate::>box)
> "<div class=\"box\"></div>"
> CL-USER>
>
> ... what did *you* think it would generate?
>
>
A proper object with a proper and well controlled PRINT-OBJECT
method 😏 (controlled by the printer's parameters and others as well).

CL-USER 6 > *(<:div (:class "box" :id 42) (<:p () "Foo"))* ; You can write
whatever functions you want (*)
*<div class="box" id="42"><p>Foo</p></div>*

CL-USER 7 > *(describe *)*

<div class="box" id="42"><p>Foo</p></div> is an
IT.UNIMIB.DISCO.MA.XHTMLAMBDA::ELEMENT
TAG             IT.UNIMIB.DISCO.MA.XHTMLAMBDA:DIV
ATTRIBUTES      ("class" "box" "id" 42)
CONTENT         (<p>Foo</p>)

CL-USER 8 >



> > >
> > > Oh samesies. I honestly try to use TP libraries, but they never
> > > work
> > > the way I quite want them to. So I end up shaving some yaks and
> > > writing
> > > my own.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yask that work on LW only.
>
> Yep. Because I'm not writing libraries for other people. I'm writing
> them for myself. Was that not clear?
>

It is.  But I am writing libraries for other people to use.

Look if I *wanted* to write open source stuff for other people, I'd de
> facto have to be using SBCL, since that's where most of the open-
> source-users seem to hang out.
>

I ranted about this in the past 😁 see my blog (
https://within-parens.blogspot.com/)

I, however, fell in love with LW's approach (except the editor. Try as
> I might, I can't cuddle close to the editor), because it seemed the
> best-supported and most well-rounded of the commercial solutions.
>
> I *wanted* to like ACL - I think Allegrograph might be possibly be
> magic - but there were too many hurdles for my taste at the time. And
> the ethos of "we'll give you a licence for cheap, but you have to
> negotiate individually with us if you want to distribute" sort of
> rubbed me up the wrong way.
>
> And SBCL's approach to delivery (no tree shaker) of "save-lisp-and-die"
> sort of leaves me cold.
>
> Sorry, off topic, my personal road to lisp isn't interesting.
>
> > Having said that, the issue is IMHO, not to have the "shortest" code,
> > which usually falls short here and there, but not to have the
> > "maximally bloated one" too.
> >
>
> Oh of course. I didn't mention code length as a measure of greatness, I
> meant it more as a "probably does less because it's shorter" but my
> *needs* are lesser, too.
>
> > >
> > > I'd really like a reactive CAPI interface; if I ever do need some
> > > CAPI
> > > love I'll probably shave a herd of yaks to implement a reactive
> > > front-
> > > end on it first. Bad, bad use of my time.
> >
> > I'd like to have a CAPI that works on CCL.  And SBCL, and ABCL, and
> > ...
> >
>
> Well, doesn't that sort of exist? CLIM and clones?
>

Not the same.

Now on the topic of MCCLIM, I remember Kenny spewing about ASDF some
> time, he commented that ASDF intentionally loads files in reverse
> order, in order to support MCCLIM or something. He was having problems
> with ASDF too. I didn't really follow what he was talking about to be
> honest; I could never get his stuff to work for me because it was so
> ACL specific.
>
> Yes I see the irony in my stuff being LW specific. But the difference
> is that I'm not writing stuff for public consumption :)
>
>
> > Kenny can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/kenny.tilton
> >
>
> Wouldn't be the same. I can't imagine he's screaming about cells on
> facebook.
>
> PS thanks for responding inline - top-posting really is the devil.


I am old school too ❤️

Cheers

MA


(*) Now for the second shameless plug of the day: here is where
(X)HTM&Lambda; is used: https://helambdap.sf.net


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