Re: Devin's effort

Sorry to anyone that wants to read threaded responses, but I'd rather reply to 
multiple comments in one message than add multiple short messages to a thread 
that some already believe is a bit overwrought...

Tanstaafl:

> > 1. *Proper* support for multiple accounts. While Thunderbird supports
> > multiple accounts, the last time I looked you could not log into
> > them separately. Either all accounts made a login attempt, or you
> > logged out of all accounts.
>
> Well... I have 8 separate IMAP accounts in my personal TB (I use
> Portable versions, so I can have both my Personal and Work TB's running
> simultaneously), and 13 separate IMAP accounts in my work TB, all with
> independent 'check account' settings (some disabled so I have to check
> manually, others set to different intervals checking automatically).

You almost convinced / confused me, but I think the key here is I'm talking 
about logging in / logging out and you are talking about "check account". I 
believe these are separate concepts. I do not recall ever seeing a "log in" or 
"log out" item in a pop menu for an account / server. Only some global menu 
item. Sure, once logged in (to all accounts) you can check each individually, 
but when I tried it you couldn't selectively log in to some accounts and not 
others.


Tanstaafl:

> 2. Slow? Haven't noticed it - unless you mean after initially adding a
> new IMAP account with a lot of folders and emails? In that case, yes,
> until it finishes syncing all of that email, it will be slow.

And Tanstaafl again on the same subject:

> Users can
> misinterpret certain situations - like the initial sync of a large IMAP
> store - as a more general problem.

Then David Lang on the same subject:

> the very fact that it insists on syncing the entire mailstore to the local
> device rules it out for many of us.

Exactly. This is what I meant by "2. *Intelligent* support for massive 
(Gigabyte plus) mail archives with a large number of folders.": not attempting 
to sync and index the lot. You said later that this can be turned off. Well, 
sure, but it's not off by default and having it on by default results in an 
immediately poor user experience. But also, I have a vague recollection that 
turning it off meant it was no longer easy to browse through the folders. You 
will no doubt argue that I'm spreading FUD, but sorry it was a while ago and I 
sunk enough time into an unpleasant user experience back then and I'm even 
more time poor to research it again now. Hopefully, arbitrarily browsing 
through a large folder hierarchy without pre-iterating the entire hierarchy is 
easier in Thunderbird now than it was in whichever version I tried (which, for 
the record, is <rant>before mozilla.org adopted their insane version numbering 
scheme with an apparently extremely frequent major version update 
schedule</rant>).


Tanstaafl:

> If I were to install Mulberry and encounter the weirdness that has been
> described with Mulberry looking for certain temp files in the wrong
> places, does that mean that Mulberry has these problems for everyone?

No, because that was only reported for only one platform (Windows) that has 
changed its rules about standard locations for certain files over the course 
of the several OS version updates that have occurred during Mulberry's 
lifetime and afterlifetime, so to speak.


Tanstaafl:

> Like I said earlier, TB has excellent Identity management, that is
> expanded even more with an Addon or two...

I don't want to fart around locating and trying out addons if/when the main 
application falls short. I acknowledge that can work for time-rich people, but 
you yourself acknowledged that perceived slowdowns in TB can be caused by 
addons, when talking about perceived slowness:

> Profiles can get corrupt. Users can install buggy Addons.

But then in later messages you say again that addons from "trustworthy" 
sources are fine and dandy. Well, I'm sure they are, but it's additional 
cognitive load and time to spend sifting through the trustworthy from the 
untrustworthy.


Quanah Gibson-Mount:

> b) The "New messages" hotlink, that lets me just track which folders across
> all of my accounts have unread mail, so I don't have to expand my
> many-levels-deep folders across numerous accounts just to track what folders
> I have unread mail in.

Aaah, yeah. I am so used to relying on that that I forgot to call it out as an 
essential feature. I recall in TB I needed to muck around with subscribing to 
specific folders or somesuch. Though maybe Mulberry is effectively the same 
behind the scenes, and just presents a simpler UI for this.

Look, what it boils down to for me was that I have attempted to use 
Thunderbird a couple of times (at least) in the past and, perhaps foolishly, 
attempted to replicate the workflow I am familiar with in Mulberry. And there 
were always a few niggles or even major annoyances. I may even be 
misremembering some of this. So while you have countered most points in my 
Mulberry essentials list, I suspect that there is some subtlety that I am not 
describing well enough that is a big enough difference for me to make 
Thunderbird painful.

That said, I'm not suggesting that Thunderbird is a terrible IMAP client. I 
still be believe that Thunderbird is a lot closer to what I want than other 
IMAP clients. Many don't seem to work *at all* without syncing the entire 
store. I'm looking at you, Evolution (does that still exist?) and (IIRC) Apple 
Mail. And don't get me started on how horrible the default iOS mail client is.

Cheers,

    Bernie