Re: Using TAB to check for new messages

> :) >   Do you use the IMAPSTATUS token in the index-format?. If not, make 
> :) > sure you use it.
> :) >
> :) >   A recent message is marked as "N" or "R", while and unseen message 
> :) > is marked as "U" when you use IMAPSTATUS. If you have never tweaked 
> :) > the index-format variable, then both recent and unseen messages are 
> :) > marked as "N". This will only lead you to confusion.
> :) >   
> :) No, I've never changed index-format from its default. Are you saying 
> :) that this will help pine better identify recent messages or it will 
> :) help me identify the recent vs. unseen messages?
>
> The IMAPSTATUS token will help you identify recent vs. unseen
> You probably want to define your index-format as
>
> index-format=IMAPSTATUS MSGNO DATE FROMORTO(33%) SIZE SUBJECT(67%)
>   

I tried IMAPSTATUS and I'm no big fan of it, I guess it's a matter of 
preference.

> :) Hmm, not sure I understand the explanation in the Help at all and it 
> :) seems to imply that I should let it set to its default of 2. The Help 
> :) also mentions Stay-Open-Folders. Should I make all my Inboxes 
> :) Stay-Open-Folders so that pine never closes the connection for the 
> :) Inboxes? Will this help pine correctly identify recent messages or is 
> :) the opposite that I want (i.e. I want pine to actually close the 
> :) folder)?
>
> There are streams, that is connections to servers. Forget about the fact 
> that you open a stream to connect to a folder and think about connecting 
> to the server. This number specifies the maximum number of streams that 
> you can have (modulo some other restrictions, to which I will get later).
>
> Once you are connected to a server you can open any folder in it, as long 
> as you have permission to do so. If you use a connection to open a folder, 
> then a connection to another folder will be closed, that is, you can only 
> access one folder per connection.
>
> Your connection to your INBOX is never closed. Think of it as a "it is 
> always open folder" or as a "stay-open" folder. You can make any imap 
> folder an stay-open folder. For any "stay-open" folder you open a 
> connection. If you have 30 folders in an imap server, and you want them to 
> be stay-open folder, you will open 30 connections to that server.
>
> So think of incoming folders as two groups. One which are stay-open and 
> the rest. The feature we are talking about refers to this latter group, 
> and everything I will say in the following text refers to this latter 
> group. For this group you can only open up to this number of connections. 
> For example, if you use the default and if first-folder is in server1, and 
> second-folder is in server2, then when you open both connections you have 
> used the maximum number of connections that you are allowed. If you open 
> any other remote folder in this latter group, one of these folders will be 
> closed (connection to that folder closed) and another session open. The 
> problem is that the connections (to the folder) are kept open even if you 
> are not in the folder, after you have entered to this folder for the first 
> time, and even if you have closed that folder.
>
> Some things may have happened in this folder when you closed it, like new 
> mail arrival. If this is the case, you won't know it, unless you press the 
> TAB key or actually open that folder. You do not receive notification of 
> new mail in a closed folder, unless such folder is in the stay-open group.
>
> As a mathematician that I am, I can tell you that there are two ways to 
> close a folder. One "strong close", where when you close the folder, you 
> unplug the cable to the folder, the folder is really closed, and "weak 
> close", where the connection is open to that folder, even if you do not 
> see it. In the latter group, a close is a weak close. In previous versions 
> of Pine a close was a strong close, now a close is a weak close or a 
> strong close depending on the number of remote connections you want to 
> keep open.
>
> As far as I understand, a close in present versions of pine is the same as 
> a strong close if the value of max-remote-connections is set to 0.
>
> :) I have pine set to check for new mail every 30 sec. (I really wish it 
> :) supported the IMAP IDLE command like Thunderbird and other clients do)
> :) - does this impact in any way the identification of recent messages?
>
> As far as I understand the answer is no.
>
> :) Sorry, but I'm still confused as to what pine considers a recent 
> :) message and why it can't keep some state/snapshot of the state of each 
> :) Inbox when pine has last seen it.
>
> a recent message is a message that arrived since the last time the folder 
> was closed (in the strong sense). Once you open a folder, all messages 
> that are recent, plus those that arrive while the folder is open, are 
> considered recent. From the moment you open a folder until you close it in 
> the strong sense you are in a session. A message can be recent in only one 
> session. When you first open a folder, a recent message which has not 
> been read is marked "N" in IMAPSTATUS, and after it has been read is 
> marked "R".
>
> An unseen message is one which has not been read, or was read but flagged 
> unseen. A recent message flagged "N" is unseen. A recent message flagged 
> "R" was read, so it is not "Unseen". When you read a "N" message, it 
> becomes a "R" message.
>
> If a message is flagged "U" in IMAPSTATUS it means the message was there 
> in an earlier session. When you read a "U" message it becomes a " " 
> message.
>
> When Pine closes a folder in the weak sense, you may receive new mail in 
> such folder. In that case the new message would be flagged "N" if you 
> opened the folder again without closing Pine (modulo some other 
> restrictions), but if you close Pine and reopen such folder it will be 
> flagged "U", so you need to have the [X] tab-uses-unseen-for-next-folder 
> feature enabled if you want TAB to find the messages you are missing, 
> because such message is unseen, not recent anymore.
>
> If you want to receive notification of arrivals of new messages you need 
> to make those folders stay-open folders.
>
> I hope this helps.
>   

Thanks for your detailed explanation. It does make more sense now.

I think the solution for me is to use "stay-open-folders" as I'm using 
the newmail-fifo-path for notifications for new mail which currently 
works just for my main inbox. This way I will get notified about all the 
inboxes and the Recent status is no longer that important to me. But at 
least I now understand pine's quirky recent vs new vs unseen labeling.

Tim

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