Re: Reply Top Posting

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Paul DeStefano wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:01:29 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul DeStefano <[email protected]>
> To: Bret Busby <[email protected]>
> Cc: Alpine Forum List <[email protected]>,
>     Pine Forum List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Pine-info] Reply Top Posting
> 
> Hi Bret,
>
> 	Hold the phone...I've been on this list for while now and using PINE 
> since 1993 and I haven't heard about UW dropping development.  The Alpine 
> website states nothing like that.  I heard about big budget cuts, too, but 
> not about that.  Maybe you are confusing the transition to Alpine with the 
> death of PINE.  (PINE isn't *really* dead; it lives on as Alpine. Do you 
> understand what I mean?)  Somebody form UW please chime in if I'm wrong.
>
> Long live Alpine,
> Paul
>
> P.S.  By the way, It's not at all clear how the original post-er wants Alpine 
> to behave.  What is "top post"?  Does he/she take issue with writing in 
> reverse chronological order in reply messages, which is the convention?  Or 
> is it the fact that there isn't any blank line padding before the signature 
> is included in the reply?  The latter is configurable.
>
> On Thursday, 27 November 2008, Bret Busby wrote:
>> ...
>> Unfortunately, however, the Wasington University, after decades of service 
>> to computing, in its creation and maintenance of PINE, has apparently 
>> abandoned computing and PINE, and has left PINE "dead in the water", with 
>> no support any more.
>> ...
>> I think that that would be better than simply abandoning the software, to 
>> die.
>

See messages below.

Basically, it is a case of "It is PINE, Jim, but not as we know it" (?).

PINE and ALPINE, and, IMAP, are apparently no longer supported by the 
University of Washington, other than in providing hosting of the PINE 
and ALPINE mailing lists.

PINE was apparently abandoned by the University of Washington, about 
three years go - they simply forgot to tell us. They figured that no-one 
uses the good stuff anymore (wrong! - some of us still use the good 
stuff).

As a user of PINE, I am subscribed to the PINE mailing list, but I am 
not a user of ALPINE, and am not subscribed to that mailing list, so I 
do not know what is said on the ALPINE mailing list, other than through 
the cross-postings and mulit-way postings that drift onto this list.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
  you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
   Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
   "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
   A Trilogy In Four Parts",
   written by Douglas Adams,
   published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

Message 1:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Bret Busby wrote:
> 
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:28:45 +0800 (WST)
> From: Bret Busby <[email protected]>
> To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Pine-info] Status of PINE
> 
> 
> I am reposting the message below, as the important question of what is the current status of PINE, ALPINE, and IMAP, is unacknowledged and unanswered.
> 
> So also is the queston of whether the information indicating that these applications have been abandoned by Washington University, had been previously posted
> to the list.
> 
> One of the aspects of the information that I have sought, to which no response has yet been posted, is whether this list is to continue, or whether the
> Washington University is going to close it down.
> 
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Bret Busby wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:42:42 +0800 (WST)
> > From: Bret Busby <[email protected]>
> > To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [Pine-info] RE: [Alpine-info] Cannot save messages into INBOX on
> >     local spool?
> > 
> > On Mon, 11 Aug 2008, M.RossARR wrote:
> > 
> > > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:18:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
> > > From: M.RossARR <[email protected]>
> > > Reply-To: Alpine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> > > To: Alpine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: [Pine-info] RE: [Alpine-info] Cannot save messages into INBOX on
> > >     local spool?
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, Mark Crispin wrote:
> > > > > BTW I saw in another message something about Alpine going away... is that
> > > > > true? I just discovered it about a month ago after running on PC-Pine for
> > > > > years. I hate to think I got here at the end of the party. If it is going
> > > > > away is it going to be replaced by something else?
> > > > 
> > > > The University of Washington spent a large sum of money every year to pay
> > > > the salaries of the people who brought your Pine, Alpine, and IMAP.  They
> > > > are not going to do it any more;
> > > 
> > > I can understand & appreciate the financial load. But that is part
> > > of the software development effort that all universities experience
> > > in their functions. That is also part of an internal learning &
> > > teaching process unique to universities. The U of Washington, &
> > > development crew possess much to be proud of for Pine, Alpine, &
> > > IMAP.
> > > 
> > > > and in fact announced that since Microsoft,
> > > > Google, Yahoo, etc. provide email services for free, email is no longer an
> > > > essential internal service.
> > > 
> > > That seems irrelevant, as email service is one thing, software
> > > development another. However, email service is very essential,
> > > internal or external. I would never rely on one email service
> > > provider, especially like the list above. Free service as such is
> > > flaky, unreliable too often, & still needs a good email client
> > > software as the webpage access interface is often poor at best.
> > > 
> > > Pine/Alpine/IMAP is necessary! No other software I find equates!
> > > 
> > > > It is time for the "free software" community to take over the development,
> > > > maintenance, and distribution of this software.  They have claimed for many
> > > > years that they want to do so, and that UW should give up its intellectual
> > > > property rights to its software to the "free software" community.  UW has
> > > > now done so.
> > > 
> > > I hope that is all true. The U of Washington Pine, Alpine, & IMAP
> > > development crew however created the finest email client software I
> > > can find, & I hope that creation is not lost from here. Possibly
> > > some U of Washington effort will continue to be involved, whether
> > > formal or informal. It is always a major loss to loose the brains
> > > behind brilliant creations.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > The Best to You & Yours,
> > > M. Ross All Rights Reserved
> > > [email protected]
> > > subj-code: alpinelist / pinelist
> > > mrossarr.nixsyspaus.org/
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Hanoi John is done, stick a fork in him, sidetrack
> > > him, & get Ron Paul on the Nov 2008 ballot for GOP!
> > > http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd347.htm
> > > http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd379.htm
> > > 
> > > ---end-of-message---
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pine-info mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/pine-info
> > > 
> > 
> > I have just seen the above message, and, this is the first time that I have seen any reference to, or any mention of, the University of Washington
> > abandoning all of PINE, ALPINE, and IMAP.
> > 
> > Has this previously been posted to this list, and, is it true?
> > 
> > Please advise.
> > 
> > --
> > Bret Busby
> > Armadale
> > West Australia
> > ..............
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..............
> 
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
>  you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
>   Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
>   "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
>   A Trilogy In Four Parts",
>   written by Douglas Adams,
>   published by Pan Books, 1992
> 
> ....................................................
> _______________________________________________
> Pine-info mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/pine-info
>
>     [ Note: This message contains email list management information ]
> 
....................................................

Message 2:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Steve Hubert wrote:
> 
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
> To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Pine-info] Status of PINE
> 
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Bret Busby wrote:
> 
> > I am reposting the message below, as the important question of what is the current status of PINE, ALPINE, and IMAP, is unacknowledged and unanswered.
> 
> Pine development ceased about three years ago. Pine's successor is Alpine. There has been some limited discussion of Alpine's future on the alpine-info
> mailing list
>
>   http://www.washington.edu/alpine/alpine-info/subscribing.html
> 
> On that list we recently said:
> 
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008, Steve Hubert wrote:
> 
> ------ forwarded message ------
> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:37:56
> From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] alpine status
> 
> We will have at least one more release within the next couple weeks, probably called Alpine 2.0. It will include the source for Web Alpine 2.0, which was not
> included as part of Alpine 1.10.
> 
> After that, we plan to continue serving as the primary host for Alpine source, but shift our effort from direct development into more of a consultation and
> coordination role to help integrate contributions from the community.
> 
> University of Washington Alpine team
> ------ end of forwarded message ------
> _______________________________________________
> Pine-info mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/pine-info
>
>     [ Note: This message contains email list management information ]
>

....................................................
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