Re: Re: dsbl.org SERIOUS problem

"Gavan Schneider" <[email protected]> wrote in message 
news:[email protected]...

> (Dragging back towards the topic. :)

> Maybe this as a good hint: IE/Win ('the old order') is gone, and decent
> standards compliant browsers ('a new creation') are 'there to see'. Use
> them. Deploy them at your school. Provide feedback to the developers if
> they are wanting in some regard. Write to webmasters when you find buggy
> web sites that need IE/Win to "work".
>
> None of this should change how dsbl.org do their business. None of this
> will change how Microsoft does their business. But we will find we don't
> need IE/Win far sooner than we imagined. (FWIW IE/Mac is frozen at 5.2.3,
> no longer being developed, and almost never needed.)

Thanks for your reply. I've now given up on trying to change their policy, 
even though I disagree with it. Am now campaining to get them to make it a 
bit more obvious on their website.

Latest reply follows. Hopefully the last:

Ian Gulliver <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
> Chris:
>
>> OK, yes, I understand the reasoning behind it. I run insecure
>> software, you block me. What I'm saying is that while mail
>> administrators should be expected to have a 'clue' and patch their
>> software - after all, it is their job - home users in general don't.
>
> This seems to be the crux of your argument, and it's flawed.  Most
> spam these days is sent through open proxies, which are also the end
> users' problems.  End users have a responsibility to secure their
> systems, or to get off the Internet; increasingly, there is no middle
> ground.

> You also need to learn how to read, and realize that you're replying
> to the same email address for all of us.  If you want to discuss
> policy, take it to [email protected]; [email protected] is for support.

Forgive me for replying once more to [email protected], but this is my last 
email and as you will see it is more about support than policy.

I can see that I'm not going to be able to persuade you to change your 
policy on this one, so instead can I reiterate what I asked you at the end 
of my last email, namely, please make what you are doing more clear on your 
website. I noticed that you now have a warning on the front page of your 
website if you are running IE, and that you've taken the <img> tag off from 
the front page - thanks for doing that. Please could you also alter your FAQ 
at:
http://dsbl.org/faq-listed#whyserver
to state that another reason that you might be listed is if you browse the 
dsbl.org web page with an insecure browser (it would be nice I think to name 
the browsers in question so that people are 100% clear about it) and tell 
people what their options are there as well. One of the things that 
frustrated me the most when I first discovered the problem was that I had 
*no* idea why it was happening, and it looked like a bug with your website 
to me.

Please also alter:
http://dsbl.org/faq-listed#notaserver
as I think this should contain the same information.

I would also suggest a *new* FAQ entry/entries, something along the lines of 
'I've never run a proxy server or mail server on my computer. Why am I 
listed' (and tell people to look for spyware/trojans as well as insecure 
IE), and/or 'I've been listed, and all I did was browse your website', 
and/or 'I've been listed, and the transport is 'ftp-url'. What does that 
mean?'. I think as an end-user of your list myself (I used to use it to 
filter my own SpamCop mail as well as on the mail server at the school where 
I work) I would like to have been more aware that you were doing this, 
before you did it, and after you did it. You must admit that even though in 
essence you're still just receiving an email from an IP address, it is a bit 
of a departure from what people expect your list to contain. At the moment 
the FAQ gives no hints that browsers are being checked as well as MTAs and 
proxies.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

Regards,
Chris
--

'Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
the old has gone, the new has come!' - 2 Corinthians 5v17
[email protected]