Re: I don't know who's leaking this stuff...

David Dean wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>  Chris Wright <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> So the cops at the Yankees game must watch the game and the game only 
>> until someone phones them to tell them there is a crime in progress.
> 
>    That is a public place, no one has an expectation of privacy at 
> Yankee Stadium.

Depends on your personal description of the word.

> 
>> Its got nothing to do with privacy.
> 
>    Not according to the Supreme Court.

A bunch of old farts not in touch with the real world of 'today'

> 
>> Only those with something to hide have something to fear.
> 
>    What if the thing you have to hide isn't illegal? How about the 
> homosexual who is afraid of being fired for being gay? If their private 
> calls were made public record, they could very well be harmed.

That would be a failing of the system in order for that to happen.
No more so than the police breaking into your house, dragging you off to 
the police station only to be a case of mistaken identity. Shit happens.

Hopefully there are rules in place to stop it happening, (and more 
likely, to stop it happening when it does).

But that shouldn't happen and would be IMHO collateral damage in the the 
greater cause.
Collateral damage was invented by the US, can't be nothing wrong in 
employing in it this case.

> 
>> How about the probability that they are going to catch someone and 
>> prevent them from blowing you up.
> 
>    You don't understand what probable cause means. If the police raid 
> everyone's house, there is a high probability that they'll catch some 
> criminals. I hope you aren't suggesting that they do that. Each 
> individual search must meet that criteria, not the sum total of them.

You're talking chalk and cheese. Two different actions.
If you wanted to use the same analogy, it would be like knocking on 
everyone door and asking if there was a crime in progress and is 
everything ok? Only entering if the person answering stated there was 
something wrong, or they saw something in progress. There is nothing 
wrong with knocking.

Or like the police patrolling your neighborhood looking for crime in 
progress.  Have you not noticed that where they no longer patrol, crime 
rates have gone through the roof.

All they are doing is patrolling your 'phone conversations', they don't 
stop and listen to each and everyone.  An algorithm searches for hits 
and only flags it for extra scrutiny when required.

Got to admit, it could all go pear shaped if ABC ever bring out a show 
called "People Say the Funniest Things" as sponsored by the NSA/CIA/FBI 
etc, but really, is that going to happen.  You might get the odd one or 
two disgruntled employee sneaking out a conversation, but his arse is 
toast when he gets caught.  Hell, you haven't banned all Postmen just 
because a few lost it. Collateral...

> 
>> The threat wasn't so real back then 'the law' was written.
>> If it is that much of a sticking point, then the law sucks and needs to 
>> change.
> 
>    Yes it was. You're forgetting why there was a revolution in the first 
> place. The British government was forcing itself upon the people in ways 
> that were viewed as unreasonable. We're not talking about just a law, 
> but the Constitution.
> 

hmmm.  I don't seem to remember the US getting on the phone to the UK 
during our little dispute back then when the constitution was being 
read.  Wait, maybe they did it via email, or IM, or direct video link.
Bugger me, I forgot, there wasn't any of that stuff around back then 
when they wrote it.  Of course, having the great foresight that they 
did, they wrote it with the future in mind.

Its change that people fear most.  People fear change more than a threat 
on their very lives.

I understand where you are coming from and sympathise with you, but we 
have to move with the times, as sad as they are.
When the majority of the US and the UK wake up to the fact that there is 
a world out there and 90% of it hates our guts, they might sit up and 
take notice of the threat that is very real and ever present.