Re: Death penalty

> I was talking about the death penalty in cases where
> there is no question of guilt.  Those cases do exist as
> is evidenced by the example I provided.

I presumed you were only talking about clear guilt.

> And I've only talked about it as a deterrent for the person being
> executed.

Again, that's not a deterrent, it's a punishment.
>  I do think the law is a teacher and does send a
> message about what society will tolerate

It may send that message, but it doesn't do anything further.

> but I don't care about its deterrent value in an abstract
> sense.

Fair enough. At least you're willing to admit it.

>>The fact that lifetime imprisonment could bring danger to those guarding
>> them doesn't wash for me - guards know the risk going into it. <
>
> Wow, the life of a guilty murderer is more worthy of protection than that of
> a man/woman doing a job.

Mike, you're not this stupid.

> I don't know why either of you inject money into this equation when I have
> explicitly ruled it out as a factor in my support of it.  As far as I'm
> concerned the money argument is a straw man.

You didn't rule it out in your initial post, which is what I responded to.

> >From a faith standpoint, I can't support anything that puts vengeance in
> the hands of human beings.<
>
> You keep saying it is vengeance.  I will keep saying it is not.

I'm afraid you'll have to do better than "saying it."

> Yes humans are a fallible, we wouldn't have to punish criminals if we
> weren't.  But the criminal removes the possibility of grace in his/her life
> when he/she chooses to take the life of another will malice and without
> justification or mitigating factors.

You don't get to determine when God's grace is finished. To be so
presumptuous is not only terrifying, but contemptible. It's truly
difficult for me to imagine greater hubris. God commanded you not to
murder, and you're going to demand that He step aside while we exact
our vengeance? Count me out, please.

> Are you against the use of deadly force in self defense for the same
> reason?

Of course. Make your position clear, please: does our obedience to God
end where our lives are endangered?

-- 
-pcg
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