Re: Death penalty

> Wow, the life of a guilty murderer is more worthy of protection than that of
> a man/woman doing a job.

>Mike, you're not this stupid.<

Obviously I am in your arrogant and enlightened opinion.  But I'm fine with 
that.  



> I don't know why either of you inject money into this equation when I have
> explicitly ruled it out as a factor in my support of it.  As far as I'm
> concerned the money argument is a straw man.

>You didn't rule it out in your initial post, which is what I responded to.<

And this wasn't a response to you.  Besides I never used the economic argument 
in favor of it so your use of it was a straw man.


> >From a faith standpoint, I can't support anything that puts vengeance in
> the hands of human beings.<
>
> You keep saying it is vengeance.  I will keep saying it is not.

>I'm afraid you'll have to do better than "saying it."<

I see.  And that only works for when I'm saying something?  


> Yes humans are a fallible, we wouldn't have to punish criminals if we
> weren't.  But the criminal removes the possibility of grace in his/her life
> when he/she chooses to take the life of another will malice and without
> justification or mitigating factors.

>You don't get to determine when God's grace is finished. To be so
presumptuous is not only terrifying, but contemptible. It's truly
difficult for me to imagine greater hubris. God commanded you not to
murder, and you're going to demand that He step aside while we exact
our vengeance? Count me out, please.<

So you get to speak for God, but I don't.  Not that I thought I was but it seems 
quite clear to me that you think you do.  That is what is scary.  Please come up 
with a more coherent argument than God commanded us not to murder.  That is 
puerile.


> Are you against the use of deadly force in self defense for the same
> reason?

>Of course. Make your position clear, please: does our obedience to God
end where our lives are endangered?<

Again your willingness to speak for God, especially as it pertains to me is 
rather disconcerting.  Not only would you choose pacifism but you would force 
that choice on me.  (Talking about the self-defense aspect).  


Give me one scintilla of evidence that defending oneself is disobedient to God.  
And didn't you say you would call the police to aid you in a crime situation?  
IF, please note the if, you are against self defense but would call the police 
to aid you during a crime, knowing that calling the police may involve their use 
of deadly force, (don't make the bullshit argument that it doesn't - they carry 
guns are empowered to use deadly force, even in situations where a civilian 
might be prohibited from doing so), you are engaging in a most despicable form 
of moral cowardice.  In essence you are asking another to do your dirty work for 
you and that is reprehensible.

Mike F. 

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