Re: The price of the new American virtue

I find nothing here to disagree with.  Thanks Mike, that helped.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Mike Findlay
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 10:20 AM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] The price of the new American virtue

You know, I think I'd rather have the cards all on the table and our enemies

in plain sight.  The election of Hamas was obviously not our choice, but 
from even a rather Machiavellian point of view, at least we know who we are 
dealing with, and besides getting a pro-american govt. elected wasn't a 
realistic possibility.  The best we could hope for was something akin to 
Saudi Arabia where they proclaim friendship and fund Al Quaeda.  Having all 
the enmity above board is safer in the long run.

What is happening in Egypt is a good thing.  I don't want this to sound 
condescending, but I think we are seeing the emergence of democratic 
tendencies in a region that has historically been autocratic/totalitarian in

nature.   If they can pull this off without it going seriously south the 
whole world will benefit.

And then there is the fundamental issue of sovereignty.  I'd much prefer a 
foreign policy of telling nations that we won't meddle in their internal 
affairs, but if they decide to pull international hijinks we will be all 
over them like white on rice.  Bring back Teddy Roosevelt.

Mike F.



-----Original Message----- 
From: Karl Swenson
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:55 AM
To: 'DADL (off topic)'
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] The price of the new American virtue

Honestly I am not sure who is who in this whole fiasco.  The only stand out
is the Muslim Brotherhood who claim to be nonviolent, but who some claim
have a lot of violent connections to various bad guys.

They also do openly advocate sharia law, which concerns me.

Mubarack leaving leaves a void and someone will fill it.  I have absolutely
no hope it will be any manner of improvement to the present government, and
the odds are way more lively for it to be worse.

I think we are foolish not to be concerned, but I know so little about
Mubarack that I am not willing to muster any kind of defense.

I think the Palestine election that elected hamas is proof that democracy is
a two edge sword, and whether we meddle or not we may not like the outcome.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Lance McLain
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:49 AM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] The price of the new American virtue


> If the US isn't standing up for freedom and democracy what is the
> point of all our talk about freedom.

!!! Bravo!

> I will differ with you on Israel though.  They have fair reason to
> distrust the Arab world, it is unfortunate but it is true.  '67 and
> '72 aren't figments of their imagination.  That being said I think
> they would have been better remaining silent on the whole affair.  I
> suspect it was a bit of a swipe at Obama though - sort of a "You
> want to push us, fine, but here's a glimpse of reality if we are
> hung out to dry by your policies."

Perhaps.  It just seems to me to quote a comment on another board "The
fundie Islamists want Sharia law and religious rule, the Western govs
want a regime they can control/influence, Israel wants a strong (read
secular dictator) as a neighbor who will control the Palestinians, and
none of those people give a crap about the average Egyptian."

As revealed in the Kristof op-ed I posted, it is only those in Tahrir
Sq that are on the right side here.  It is disheartening that America
is not.

I saw tweeted today that the Coptic Orthodox Christians held Mass in
the square this morning side by side with the Muslims.  What's not to
like about that!

regards,
-Lance

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