Re: Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding...

________________________________
From: pcg <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 12:37:05 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding...

> (For Mike, that's what I meant when I said the idea was "beyond the
> pale." For anyone who's genuinely interested, there's at least enough
> circumstantial evidence to consider the possibility, that's all.)<
>
> And that was my point you would understand how some might reach that
> conclusion without having evidence to support it, (you not having evidence,
> not those reaching the conclusion since you aren't interested enough to
> investigate whether there is any evidence).  But you refuse to
> entertain/understand any doubt someone else might have about Obama's
> birthplace.

Perfectly fair, except that I *don't* refuse to entertain/understand
any doubt that someone has about Obama's birthplace. It's a legitimate
(if odd) question to pose, and I have no problem with that.

What I *won't* entertain are persistent, silly accusations that linger
*after* sufficient evidence has been provided. (You may say it isn't
the "best evidence," or whatever, but it was perfectly legitimate,
legal, and independently corroborated. In other words, it was good
enough for everyone *except* the birthers.)

If it were possible for someone to provide evidence that the birther
movement *wasn't* rooted in latent racial anxiety, and all relevant
agencies agreed that the evidence was legitimate, I would no longer be
willing to entertain the notion. (Of course, that's not possible,
which is a shame.)  :P

> And has been pointed out previously your insistence that
> it was never questioned in his earlier life is irrelevant.  He
> wasn't seeking the presidency then.  It was questioned
> when he sought the presidency and until yesterday he had
> refused to present the best evidence of his claim that he
> was/is a US citizen.  The second clause of that previous
> sentence is unassailable fact.

Indeed, but it's also a fact that doesn't matter to *anyone* but the
people who didn't want him in office, which is my point. It didn't
matter to employers, universities, state or federal agencies, etc.
Sure, you can start flinging any baseless accusation you want at a
Presidential candidate, but that doesn't mean anyone has to take your
accusations seriously, particularly after the accusations have been
settled and dismissed by everyone *except* the accusers.

> You can say all you want about how he shouldn't have had
> to and whatever, quite frankly lame reason, he shouldn't have
> had to release it but the unassailable fact still remains.

Great! Now that the best evidence *has* been released, what will be
the persistent "unassailable fact" going forward?

> The refusal to release the best evidence is "at least
> enough circumstantial evidence to consider the
> possibility" that one of the reasons he wouldn't
> release it was because it didn't exist and/or there
> was a genuine issue as to his citizenship.

Agreed, definitely enough to consider the possibility. There are also
*other* likely explanations, which must be taken into consideration as
well. Given the previously-released legal documentation, as well as
the independent corroborations, newspaper birth notice, etc., it's
fair to say that the circumstantial evidence leaned *heavily* in favor
of Obama's natural born status. At least when weighed against the mere
supposition that he's hiding something.

> I never gave the matter much thought, so it never even
> rose the level of doubt/trust for me.  I really didn't care.
> I was much more disappointed that the U.S. electorate
> fell for his hopeychangey hooey than the possibility that
> someone not technically a citizen got elected.  But, other
> people were concerned with it and most likely on a partisan
> basis, but so what.  Politics and elections are partisan
> things and both sides do whatever they can to elect their
> guy and prevent the other's guy from getting elected.

Certainly, but we're supposed to at least pretend that we're disgusted
by mudslinging and lies.

> However with his continued refusal to release the document I can understand
> why some might wonder what he was trying to hide or what the big deal was
> that he couldn't just put it out there, even those that never were birthers
> or gave much thought to this issue.  I didn't wonder that because I was and
> continue to be convinced that he believed not releasing the document was
> advantageous to him politically.

Heh. I didn't wonder because I was and continued to be convinced that
he didn't feel it was very Presidential to stoop to the level of
rebutting baseless accusations.  ;)

Your supposition is possible, of course, but as Adam Carolla pointed
out, if he was using the birther thing as a political strategy, it
would have been *much* more advantageous to let Trump (or whoever)
ride that horse all the way up to the election, and *then* drop the
bomb on them. Releasing it this early feels much more like trying to
get it out of the way, rather than maximizing it as a political move.

> Back to the point, that you can understand the
> accusations of birther's being racist but not understand
> why people might wonder about his refusal to release
> the best evidence exposes a double standard, which
> I am lead to believe is based on partisanship.

I realize I'm repeating myself at this point, but the difference is
that there was existing, legal, independently corroborated, and
external evidence to rebut the birther theories. I don't really know
how else to put it. The demands for further, "best" evidence appeared
to be transparent desperation, and, as expected, turned out to be
nothing more than a bunch of noisemaking.

-- 
-pcg
 [email protected]

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