Re: Marine killed in his own home

Hey, there's gravity in that their levity.  ; - )

Mike F. 




________________________________
From: Johne Cook <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 2:35:39 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Marine killed in his own home

Guns don't kill Marines in their own homes, jackbooted government thugs do.

<gd&r>

Johne Cook
| http://raygunrevival.com | http://authorculture.blogspot.com |*
*


On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Paul Christian Glenn <[email protected]>wrote:

> IIRC we got into a fairly heated debate about this last year, but... :)
>
> It all boils down to the stupidity of the deceased. As a rule, peiple who
> come out slowly with their hands up don't get shot. People who grab shotguns
> do. We can debate the righteousness of this, but that's how it is. I won't
> say this guy "deserved" to get shot, but thise who live by the sword...
>
>
>
> On May 27, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Mike Findlay <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "Vanessa Guerena says she heard noise outside their home about 9 a.m.
> > Thursday and woke her husband who had just gone to bed after working a
> > 12-hour shift at the Asarco Mine, she said. There were no sirens or
> shouts
> > of "police," she said."
> >
> >> The helmet cam video clearly disputes that.<
> >
> >
> > There was 8-10 seconds of siren moments before the raid.  Police siren,
> car
> > alarm?  I lived in lousy neighborhood for awhile a number of years ago -
> police
> > sirens were routine and we never thought anything about them.
> >
> >
> > Shouts of police?  The camera/mic is a ways away so it is hard to say for
> sure
> > what was said by the cops at the door, but "clearly disputes that" ain't
> clear
> > at all.  Apparently the neighbors don't recall hearing a siren, which is
> > completely understandable if you have ever lived in a marginal
> neighborhood.
> >
> >
> >
>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/26/video-of-the-pima-county-swat-raid/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+radleybalko+%28The+Agitator%29
>9
> >
> >
> >
> >> I speak in no way of justifying the raid or his death.  But one initial
> > thought is that with sirens blaring outside and police identifying
> > themselves loudly, it is an act of stupidity to arm yourself.   <
> >
> > They weren't identifying themselves loudly immediately before entering.
>  There
> > sure wasn't any shouting going on.  When you are in your own home doing
> nothing
> > illegal you have every right in the world to arm yourself if you feel
> > threatened.  Assholes wearing a badge does not deprive you of that basic
> right.
> > Note he didn't come out shooting and there isn't even evidence that he
> pointed
> > the weapon at the pigs.
> >
> >
> >
> >> I also want to point out that fact he had not shot and the gun was on
> safety
> > is not relevant, nor is his being a Marine.  That fact he was holding it
> did
> > make him a threat and in many other settings if a police officer saw a
> man
> > holding a weapon there would be justification for deadly force.<
> >
> > No it wouldn't.  Holding a weapon is not an absolute justification for
> deadly
> > force.  Deadly force has to be proportionate and it wasn't.  71 shots to
> none,
> > into a home with possible unarmed occupants, including shots fired
> blindly by
> > some cowboy pig is not justifiable deadly force.
> >
> >
> >> The real issue we should be debating is why his home was selected for a
> raid
> > in the first place, because that element is the primary point of failure
> if
> > he had no drugs or money.  In almost all of the cases I have been reading
> > about that has been a huge factor.<
> >
> > That isn't the "real" issue we should be debating, it just adds to the
> > despicable conduct of these jackbooted thugs.  Not only did they act
> > murderously, they are entirely without any excuse.
> >
> >
> > http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/22/jose-guerena-evidence-dont-buy
> >
> >
> > Mike F.
> > --
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>
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